Change of product direction, good and bad news!

painintheworld · Post by **painintheworld** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:06 am

Why not make a recommendation of a couple of applicable mATX (or whichever form factor) case, let the customer order one of those cases, and the CX16 guys provide case badges, etc.?

I would buy an X8, but I also 100% understand the trepidation some have about it. I have thought about it a bit since reading this thread and still haven’t decided if it would dilute things too much.

I would be glad to donate $$ for development. I’d even do it on an ongoing basis, *if* there were official status updates, and if things didn’t linger in perpetual development hell. Setup a separate Patreon for Commander X16 development and keep people apprised of the goings on.

All that said, I really wish you had struck up a deal with Stefany. I am really looking forward to picking up a couple more machines from her soon.

Roughnight · Post by **Roughnight** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:06 am

That is a great idea to ask for donations.
I would be more than happy to donate to the project; would love to see an X16 and get one.
Perhaps pre-orders could help too maybe?

Preorders are a really good Idea... Maybe some Numbers of Dev Boards to a slightly higher price Like the mega65 did it.

John Chow Seymour · Post by **John Chow Seymour** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:17 am

8 minutes ago, Roughnight said:

14 minutes ago, Sid_Som said:

Perhaps pre-orders could help too maybe?

Preorders are a really good Idea... Maybe some Numbers of Dev Boards to a slightly higher price Like the mega65 did it.

Yeah, but with pre-orders, this problem remains:

5 hours ago, John Chow Seymour said:

With the uncertainty of the chip market these days [...] it's surely hard to get even a ballpark on what an X16 might cost. Start a Kickstarter now [or start taking preorders], and you run the risk of locking backers in at a price that's too low (which hurts the dev team) or too high (which will anger some backers).

Roughnight · Post by **Roughnight** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:19 am

Yeah right.... -.-

John Chow Seymour · Post by **John Chow Seymour** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:26 am

I just mean, let's say they estimate the production cost at $275, so they set the sale price at $350 (because of course, there should be a profit margin). Then, due to the unstable chip market, it turns out they cost $500 to produce. The team loses money on every pre-order, ouch!

Or the opposite: sell pre-orders at $500 but then it turns out you can source them for $275 and so the general public is charged $350. In this situation, the people who were nice enough to show their support and pre-order got punished for doing so. (Although, maybe some wouldn't mind, and would see it as a the cost of supporting the project...)

painintheworld · Post by **painintheworld** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:36 am

20 hours ago, Tmp2k said:

I work with a bespoke SFF case manufacturer. There's no minimum order, the cases are manufactured ad-hoc. The case could be designed from scratch around the X16 and supplied in kit form or fully assembled. Right at the start, before you announced the official case, we were looking at offering our own product to go with the X16.

I'd love to work with you and produce an official case, or if you don't want the hassle of managing a new case project maybe we could just produce our own complimentary product?

Hope this post doesn't get lost in the noise, please drop me a PM.

Just want to bump this. I mentioned above that it would be great if the CX16 team would make a couple of “official” case recommendations, and let the end user buy the case on their own, and David & company supply case badges with the kit (diy or preassembled). It is certainly understandable that David doesn’t want to invest the time, warehousing, or money in pallets of cases.

codewar65 · Post by **codewar65** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:39 am

Personally, I think the team should stick with just phase-1. Get one flawless solid product out the door, in kit form or finished, then expand from there. Many things learned in going phase-1 will alter future branches.

The X8 sounds like a whole different product. It'd be like asking the C=64 user base if they would be interested in a C=32. Why?

Roughnight · Post by **Roughnight** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:40 am

I just mean, let's say they estimate the production cost at $275, so they set the sale price at $350 (because of course, there should be a profit margin). Then, due to the unstable chip market, it turns out they cost $500 to produce. The team loses money on every pre-order, ouch!
Or the opposite: sell pre-orders at $500 but then it turns out you can source them for $275 and so the general public is charged $350. In this situation, the people who were nice enough to show their support and pre-order got punished for doing so. (Although, maybe some wouldn't mind, and would see it as a the cost of supporting the project...)

OK, I totally understand this!

Is there a way to produce the X16 phase 3 as fast as the x8?
I still think you should give the developers something to develop software and games so that even more people can get excited about the X16. The Emulator is awesome, but real Hardware ist going to boost the motivation^^

And then, when the market has calmed down a bit, the X16 phase 1 as a diy kit :)

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:48 am

47 minutes ago, Sid_Som said:

That is a great idea to ask for donations.

I would be more than happy to donate to the project; would love to see an X16 and get one.

Perhaps pre-orders could help too maybe?

I think if you go to 8BG's Patreon page and start donating, or increase your donation if already donating, with a quick note to him that you're doing it for X16 support, that might go a long way, and then he doesn't have to do anything but be thankful for all the people who want to help see this dream computer succeed.

Stephane1 · Post by **Stephane1** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:51 am

For me the interest of this projects, is to build it myself. A kit sounds perfect. Personally i have no interest for a fpga system, if i want that i can always buy a raspberry pi. I also am not interested on the x8, and i believe it would dilute the project by offering too many programming options. The case sounds like a lot of problems for little rewards, being an atx motherboard it would be easy to let the user buy a small case to fit the board.

If you plan on offering a fpga solution down the line i hope you will still offer the kit solution as an option.

Wishing you the best for the succes of the commander x16 kit option! ?