I cannot leave a message in the good, bad thread started by David.

[svenvandevelde]

Is there a way to reopen this? Why was it closed?

[Scott Robison]

I'm sure a moderator *could* but I don't think they will. But it was a huge thread that long ago served its purpose.

You have a nice shiny new thread here, though. You could use it!

[svenvandevelde]

Discovered the news just this week. The feedback of David is very human. It is a challenging project. And to do all of this endeavor without proper investment backing is courageous. However ... 1 million people watch his videos. So there is a genuine interest in his dream machine. There is a genuine interest in home computing. 

How would the risk be minimized if he would go for crowdfunding. First of all it would give the team immediate funds. 

Second it would bring the team some sort of advertisement. He needs about 50% of the cost to get the parts and materials. The rest is labour cost for assembly. And why China. Why not the US or the EU to assemble. 

I wanted to ask these questions. There are other retro computing projects that ask a 3 digit number starting with an 7 or 8 in € for a home computer. I feel cheap and phase 1 don't match. Phase 1 is the first design, and yes it will be more expensive. 

I just feel David is focused on cheap while this site probably had hobbyists who wouldn't care to fund or pay an extra € to help the team moving forward. 

Other thing is the case ... Is 3D printing an option? I do feel that the X16 needs a case. It gives the product an identity. 

[Calculon]

On 11/29/2021 at 12:33 PM, svenvandevelde said:

Discovered the news just this week. The feedback of David is very human. It is a challenging project. And to do all of this endeavor without proper investment backing is courageous. However ... 1 million people watch his videos. So there is a genuine interest in his dream machine. There is a genuine interest in home computing. 



How would the risk be minimized if he would go for crowdfunding. First of all it would give the team immediate funds. 



Second it would bring the team some sort of advertisement. He needs about 50% of the cost to get the parts and materials. The rest is labour cost for assembly. And why China. Why not the US or the EU to assemble. 



I wanted to ask these questions. There are other retro computing projects that ask a 3 digit number starting with an 7 or 8 in € for a home computer. I feel cheap and phase 1 don't match. Phase 1 is the first design, and yes it will be more expensive. 



I just feel David is focused on cheap while this site probably had hobbyists who wouldn't care to fund or pay an extra € to help the team moving forward. 



Other thing is the case ... Is 3D printing an option? I do feel that the X16 needs a case. It gives the product an identity. 

You could find this topic debated hotly in that closed thread.  Here were the reasons to not do crowdfunding as I recall:

1. The primary issue right now appears to be logistics, not money.  Taking people's money wouldn't speed that up.  Nor will increasing the the visibility of it through advertising.

2. Crowdfunding creates an obligation (at the very least, in David's view) to reach specific targets, and right now there is too much uncertainty to make any promises about the final product.

The case they designed not free to the public.  You are free to design your own, of course, and 3D print that for personal use.

[paulscottrobson]

I think David crowdfunded another project (one of the PlanetX ?) and didn't rate the experience highly

[Cyber]

Yes, David himself said that he did not liked the crowdfunding process.

Please give it a time. David and team will sort things out.

[Lasagna]

So many basic parts have such long lead times now I understand why X16 is on a slow roll at this point. Even if they froze the design and ran a crowdfunding campaign, they might have to wait 6-12 months for a batch of FPGAs to be produced to fill demand, etc. 

I also think there is the other issue that David mentioned in one of his videos. The X16 uses a lot of parts that aren't stocked by the main PCB manufacturers (SNES controller ports, 65C02, etc.) and he isn't keen on releasing the X16 as a kit, so there are a bunch of logistics to work out for getting parts to those factories once they are available.

Honestly, the price should be high enough for a third party fulfillment firm to be hired to manage all of that. A lot of Kickstarters start with a design that is then handed to a manufacturer that specializes in bringing products to market.

[svenvandevelde]

On 12/1/2021 at 3:43 PM, Lasagna said:

So many basic parts have such long lead times now I understand why X16 is on a slow roll at this point. Even if they froze the design and ran a crowdfunding campaign, they might have to wait 6-12 months for a batch of FPGAs to be produced to fill demand, etc. 



I also think there is the other issue that David mentioned in one of his videos. The X16 uses a lot of parts that aren't stocked by the main PCB manufacturers (SNES controller ports, 65C02, etc.) and he isn't keen on releasing the X16 as a kit, so there are a bunch of logistics to work out for getting parts to those factories once they are available.



Honestly, the price should be high enough for a third party fulfillment firm to be hired to manage all of that. A lot of Kickstarters start with a design that is then handed to a manufacturer that specializes in bringing products to market.

You make some valid points. These are challenging times. Lead times are terrible to obtain all the parts. That also means however that the team has time to sort out the delivery of the product, not only the design or fixing the remaining bugs in the kernal. 

I wonder if we can help David and the team somehow. I mean, money is one, delivering is another. It's not realistic to assemble everything by the core team. What David needs is a skilled team of hardware capable people who can assemble the PCs on the fly. Maybe even in a distributed way. So to say some in the USA, some in the EU, some in Asia and some in Latin-America. A design concept would be great to have. Even better would be to assemble including a nice case, CX16-ed. I'm sure that money should not be that big of an issue. I mean especially for phase 1.

It's such a unique concept. Such a great idea. It would be a shame to let this dream go. Even if it takes another year. Isn't it worth to do some joint out of the box thinking?

Im sure that on this forum there are such capable people who could help with delivery. 

 

 

[Scott Robison]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:39 AM, svenvandevelde said:

It's such a unique concept. Such a great idea. It would be a shame to let this dream go. Even if it takes another year. Isn't it worth to do some joint out of the box thinking?



Im sure that on this forum there are such capable people who could help with delivery. 

Last I read any statement from David was around the time of the MEGA65 opening for pre-orders, and his words were something to the effect of "X16 will not be as expensive." Note the use of "will not be' vs 'would not have been'.



I haven't gone to find the quote so that I can confirm it, we're relying on my memory. The point is that David doesn't seem to have given up on X16, it's just a wait and see game for now while the supply chain sorts itself out.

[BruceMcF]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:56 PM, Calculon said:

... 1. The primary issue right now appears to be logistics, not money.  Taking people's money wouldn't speed that up.  Nor will increasing the the visibility of it through advertising. ...

I believe that the PRIMARY issue is that the design is not quite finished. I might speculate ... but it would JUST be speculation, since I am another outsider to the process ... fine-tuning the 65C02 PS/2 code timing or having the 8bit ATTiny micro-controller handle the PS/2 ports might well handle the last serious outstanding problem, then when mist has free time, the Kernel can be fixed up for a beta release, with things like the bit bang serial port and a range of the "not yet implemented" features of existing routines.