PS/2 / USB discussion (split from What's the state of play with serial port support?)

Perifractic · Post by **Perifractic** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:07 am

5 hours ago, TomXP411 said:

In fact, if you buy the WASD keyboard, you have to request the older firmware, because the latest firmware no longer has PS/2 support.

Just to clarify, if you buy the X16 WASD keyboard, it automatically comes with firmware 2.5 instead of 3.0; it isn't necessary to request it.

Perifractic · Post by **Perifractic** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:08 am

5 hours ago, StephenHorn said:

Before we get too off-track with the tangent about keyboards, I want to re-emphasize that the team has said the X16 will ship with a basic PS/2 keyboard.

Correct, and unlike the deluxe WASD keyboard, our mini keyboard will be a dedicated PS/2 beast, so no messy USB > PS/2 adapters at the back of the X16. ??

There's more info about the PS/2 decision in the FAQ.

Cyber · Post by **Cyber** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:48 am

6 hours ago, StephenHorn said:

It's true that these style of adapters will not work on more modern keyboards, which have stopped including the dual-mode controller IC which enabled keyboards to operate on a passive PS/2 adapter.

And in worst case there are also exist active USB-PS/2 keyboard/mouse converters. So if somebody have their favorite USB-only keyboard or mouse, they still can be used with X16.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:55 am

8 hours ago, Andre said:

PS/2 ????? Do you have so many ~~junk~~ old keyboards lying around? I've thrown away all my PS/2 already, as it's too young for 8-bit and to old for modern PCs.... Instead I taught my Commodores to use USB keyboards ?

I always get the feeling of nostalgia with this project. Now it is nostalgia for topics that were discussed to death in early 2019, long before anybody had ever heard of Covid19.

It's about 15-18 months after the PS/2 decision was made.

StephenHorn · Post by **StephenHorn** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:16 am

20 minutes ago, BruceMcF said:

I always get the feeling of nostalgia with this project. Now it is nostalgia for topics that were discussed to death in early 2019, long before anybody had ever heard of Covid19.

It's about 15-18 months after the PS/2 decision was made.

As long as we don't revive the discussion about the SNES ports and why they aren't DE-9 ports, I'm surprisingly okay with folks having to ask why the X16 is going with a PS/2 port. For now.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:33 am

35 minutes ago, StephenHorn said:

As long as we don't revive the discussion about the SNES ports and why they aren't DE-9 ports, I'm surprisingly okay with folks having to ask why the X16 is going with a PS/2 port. For now.

It's true that a lot of people have come on board SINCE the topic was talked to death.

For me, the only anachronistic element as far as the 8bit era is using the more refined PS/2 connectors as opposed to the bigger AT keyboard connector, and I'm perfectly fine with that ... that's the kind of "smoothing out the rough edges" that was discussed in Dream Computer 1.

AFAIU, the digital side of the AT / PS/2 keyboard interface was contemporaneous with the height of the C64 / 8bit Atari era.

As far as DE-9 joystick ports, we now have two options ... a dongle with a shift register inside that reads the state of the DE-9 port when the select line is pulsed low, and a direct wire through pair of DE-9 joystick ports on the User Port ... which would be program your own interface in true User-Port-Joystick-Expansion style.

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:03 pm

16 hours ago, BruceMcF said:

I always get the feeling of nostalgia with this project. Now it is nostalgia for topics that were discussed to death in early 2019, long before anybody had ever heard of Covid19.

It's about 15-18 months after the PS/2 decision was made.

Ok, I rest my case ?

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:51 pm

18 hours ago, Cyber said:

And in worst case there are also exist active USB-PS/2 keyboard/mouse converters. So if somebody have their favorite USB-only keyboard or mouse, they still can be used with X16.

I have a StarTech variation on this. It's pretty great; I use it with my Maximite, and it does the job pretty well.

You can also do the same thing with an Arduino and a USB host controller; I'm thinking of also building a PC base adapter that lets you use your PC as a software KVM: when you activate the remote keyboard, it communicates to an Arduino which pretends to be a PS/2 keyboard and mouse.

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:53 pm

19 hours ago, Perifractic said:

Just to clarify, if you buy the X16 WASD keyboard, it automatically comes with firmware 2.5 instead of 3.0; it isn't necessary to request it.

Correct - the box to request the 2.5 firmware is already checked; IIRC, you can also choose to check the 3.0 firmware, with the knowledge that you gain more programability but lose the PS/2 protocol.

martinot · Post by **martinot** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:08 pm

On 7/24/2020 at 7:33 AM, BruceMcF said:

It's true that a lot of people have come on board SINCE the topic was talked to death.

For me, the only anachronistic element as far as the 8bit era is using the more refined PS/2 connectors as opposed to the bigger AT keyboard connector, and I'm perfectly fine with that ... that's the kind of "smoothing out the rough edges" that was discussed in Dream Computer 1.

AFAIU, the digital side of the AT / PS/2 keyboard interface was contemporaneous with the height of the C64 / 8bit Atari era.

As far as DE-9 joystick ports, we now have two options ... a dongle with a shift register inside that reads the state of the DE-9 port when the select line is pulsed low, and a direct wire through pair of DE-9 joystick ports on the User Port ... which would be program your own interface in true User-Port-Joystick-Expansion style.

I find it very strange for the X16, as a (spiritual) model in the Commodore history line of computers, to not have DE-9 ports build in. A real missed opportunity IMHO.