It's time for a decision...

Snickers11001001 · Post by **Snickers11001001** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:30 am

I generally think the community is the people, not the window dressing. But...

It seems to me the site will survive under either forum software platform IF (and only) the project itself gets off the dime at some reasonable point in the future. A lot of that depends on how much static the X16 ecosystem causes its founder and driver of forward progress (I.e., the 8BitGuy). I sense already he's not a fan of the site and prefers facebook. It seems to me a controversy about a stepdown in functionality might be the sort of thing what would "harsh his vibe" and that could be a bad thing. The internet trolls (and competing projects?) might also seize on any hiccups during a forum software transition as grounds to neg the project itself, and again that could be less than optimal.

I think those of us who support this thing ought to endeavor to preserve the status quo at least for an additional year. I can throw in $50. One caveat -- I do not favor any sort of 'badge' or special forum privileges for contributors. If people can contribute $ that's great, but I don't want to see elevated status for donors since contributions to something like this can actually come in many forms, from pure enthusiasm, to coding, to moderating, to coding demos, to making videos, etc. Just my take.

Tom, thanks to you and everyone else who stepped up on the site for all your work.

StephenHorn · Post by **StephenHorn** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:54 am

On 2/25/2022 at 6:30 PM, Snickers11001001 said:

One caveat -- I do not favor any sort of 'badge' or special forum privileges for contributors. If people can contribute $ that's great, but I don't want to see elevated status for donors since contributions to something like this can actually come in many forms, from pure enthusiasm, to coding, to moderating, to coding demos, to making videos, etc. Just my take.

Tom, thanks to you and everyone else who stepped up on the site for all your work.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:36 am

On 2/25/2022 at 7:30 PM, Snickers11001001 said:

[1] ... I sense already he's not a fan of the site and prefers facebook. ...

[2] ... One caveat -- I do not favor any sort of 'badge' or special forum privileges for contributors. ...

Regarding the first, it is important to consider the situation he is in. As a youtube content creator, he pretty much HAS TO participate on Facebook. So whatever the (very real) advantages of the site over Facebook, Facebook has the advantage that he is there anyway.

On the second, I very much agree. A badge or special privilege would be a disincentive for me to contribute at that level, unless it was possible to opt out.

x16tial · Post by **x16tial** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:18 pm

In my opinion, the prudent thing would be to take the least expensive path possible. This board, and project, isn't lighting the world on fire, sadly. We could argue about the reasons why, but we'd end up right back where we are.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:48 pm

On 2/26/2022 at 12:18 PM, x16tial said:

In my opinion, the prudent thing would be to take the least expensive path possible. This board, and project, isn't lighting the world on fire, sadly. We could argue about the reasons why, but we'd end up right back where we are.

I compare this site, for a board that to date only exists in emulator, and the Foenix256 site for a range of boards that already exist, and I think the download section here is pretty darn impressive.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:04 am

Honestly I don't have a preference, but Tom seems to prefer to switch, and if he's not worried about the dev. time/effort, then I'm not, so I just say go for it.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:24 am

I think it's fair to say, based on this situation, that we don't mind spending money if we have to, though less cost is better (where cost is more than just money). Personally, I'd rather give $801 to some other company than give $800 to Invision based on their policies if it came down to that.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:40 pm

Once paying Invision $800 on behalf of the new "entity", what term would the license then have? Is that $800 a one-off for a new ongoing license, or annual? Or, eg, once per five years? I was not entirely clear on that reading the description of the situation.

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:31 pm

On 2/27/2022 at 4:40 AM, BruceMcF said:

Once paying Invision $800 on behalf of the new "entity", what term would the license then have? Is that $800 a one-off for a new ongoing license, or annual? Or, eg, once per five years? I was not entirely clear on that reading the description of the situation.

My understanding is that if you stop paying maintenance, you lose the right to keep using the software. And as has been pointed out, we actually have to pay maintenance fees twice a year. It’s a subscription, not a purchase.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:49 pm

On 2/27/2022 at 7:31 AM, TomXP411 said:

My understanding is that if you stop paying maintenance, you lose the right to keep using the software. And as has been pointed out, we actually have to pay maintenance fees twice a year. It’s a subscription, not a purchase.

I have the same understanding, but regardless of whether our understanding is correct or not, we do know that policies have changed in the past. I have no confidence that they won't change in the future in yet another negative way beyond increased pricing.

Clearly no one can guarantee that all software will remain available with static terms and conditions forever. But we should have better luck with a different organization, especially an open source one.