Current state of the audio options?

[m00dawg]

I've been sort of assuming the YM2151 is, at this point, pretty much good to go, but I noticed the current version of the FAQ mentions the final audio implementation is still up in air a bit:

https://www.commanderx16.com/forum/index.php?%2Fabout-faq%2F&fbclid=IwAR1H3E-dVgZjKkK-EY8Ooiw4U9afgBrkWTYwaGbb_CArr4WY7ezX0s8xMho

Is it to soon to get some clarity here? Asking because I'm one of the composers for the FF-style RPG being worked on and the approach there has been to use the 2151 for the music, and the other options, whatever they may be, for the SFX. As a musician this isn't as ideal since I'd like to mess with the SAA1099 for sure ? But from a practical standpoint makes sense since we have readymade tools (Deflemask namely) we can use to compose music for the X16. It's not perhaps the most ideal but is the "best" option for now given it exists and there isn't (yet anyway!) a tracker solution on the X16.

All said, if there might be a chance the 2151 might NOT be used, that would have implications for the RPG. Obviously the X16 is still being engineered but the wording of the FAQ spooked a bit in this regard and thought I would ask.

I guess, in short, can we assume at this point that it is likely (though I understand not certain until the hardware is fully complete), that the YM2151 will be one of the sound solutions used in the X16?

[SlithyMatt]

If you are thinking about the 1099, it's not being emulated at this point, but you can use the VERA PSG with the emulator, and it gives you pretty much the same capability. You can't use any off-the-shelf tools like Deflemask to track music or sound effects for it, but you can play around with it, even in BASIC. See the VERA documentation for the interface: https://github.com/commanderx16/x16-docs/blob/master/VERA%20Programmer's%20Reference.md#programmable-sound-generator-psg

[m00dawg]

Indeed I'm excited about the 1099 myself, but the bigger concern was the YM2151. The FAQ implies this is all still subject to change but it's hard to tell what that means in practice. I would gather, given the current board revision, that the 2151 is likely to be included but might be good to know the level of confidence from the team as an ideal. It'd be a bummer to spend a lot of time and energy on music that would have to be largely thrown out if it ends up that we don't see the 2151 in the final product as an example.

[Yuki]

The 2151 spent quite a while as an optional compile-time option before being enabled by default, and a lot of software were made for it already, so you can assume it's kinda set in stone, but you never know until the board design goes final.

[SlithyMatt]

I'd be extremely surprised if the YM2151 did not make the final design. Pretty much all the games and demos that have been written already use it, if they have music.

[m00dawg]

Right on, those are my thoughts as well, but nice to see others thinking the same, thanks folks!

[StinkerB06]

VERA + YM2151 + SAA1099 is perhaps what the final design of the X16P is going to have.

I have a feeling this sound hardware in question is way too overkill for an 8-bit system, by essentially having 16+1+8+6=31 channels. This kind of reminds me of the 16-bit C256 Foenix with its cluster of sound chips (FPGA SID + SN76489 + YM2612 + YM2151 + OPL3 + 192KHz 24-bit stereo DAC + 3KHz piezo beeper). Even the ZX Spectrum Next has a more-plausible sound hardware, with three AY-3-8912 chips for a total of 9 channels (or 10 if the ZXS 1-bit beeper is included).

One of my suggestions for the X16 is to remove the SAA chip entirely, as the VERA PSG makes it redundant, which brings the channel count down to 25. Having a native tracker program work with 31 channels seems pretty hard, meanwhile it's far easier for the C64's 3.

[m00dawg]

I could talk at length about what I'd like to see in the final sound design and am quite excited about all the possible options! Folks have quite the diverse opinions there!



But the question is not so much about that and more about what can be reasonably assumed as being in the final hardware at this point so I know what is reasonably safe to start using. It sounds like the consensus is the YM2151 is a safe bet, given it is in the emulator and programs have already been written that use it; and given there is a tracker solution, albeit not a native one, to use it.

It would be nice to see it clarified in the FAQ though since, as it reads, it does imply the sound design is a lot more up in the air than that.

 

[AndyMt]

I have similar thoughts: YM2151 + VERA PSG. The advantage of the YM2151 is that there are trackers and also music/sounds (like VGM) ready to use (albeit not that many). The VERA PSG alone would leave me personally with no way of providing decent music. I'll probably use it for sound effects, while using the YM2151 for music.

[StinkerB06]

27 minutes ago, AndyMt said:

I have similar thoughts: YM2151 + VERA PSG. The advantage of the YM2151 is that there are trackers and also music/sounds (like VGM) ready to use (albeit not that many). The VERA PSG alone would leave me personally with no way of providing decent music. I'll probably use it for sound effects, while using the YM2151 for music.

Actually, it's possible to get some decent-sounding chiptune music out of the VERA PSG alone. You get 16 channels each with 67 waveforms (64 selectable pulse-wave duties, sawtooth, triangle and noise), 64 logarithmic-scaled volume levels, and simple stereo panning. This sounds like the C64 SID chip but in an alternate universe where it was designed differently.

Here's a demo of what you could do with just 3 of the 16 channels (which was made shortly after the PSG was implemented in the emulator).