It's rather disappointing that Discord is (or at least it seems to be), the primary platform for this community. That and Facebook.
Conversations on those platforms are not freely available to the internet, and in the case of Discord, leave no record that other's can easily come and read. And because those walled garden platforms are favored, the forum, which is open to the internet and keeps a record that anyone can read, gets neglected.
Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
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ahenry3068
- Posts: 1136
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:57 pm
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
I tend to agree. I use the Discord because that's "where the action is" so to speak. But i always post my work in progress and completed programs here. Fortunately this Forum does seem to be a bit more used than the FB page. I see the FB page mostly used for major announcements rather than general discussion. And I think Discord is better than say having Reddit be the hub.
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
I've stuck with the forum as it meets my needs. I was tempted to join the Discord when it first started, but I didn't have the capacity time wise to do so, and it seemed that the development "churn" moved to it. I use FB, but only check in once in awhile, as I'm on that platform for other reasons.
FB has a significant mass of users who aren't here, but it does provide a way for the world to discover the X16 project.
Youtube videos are another way people have found out about the platform.
A lot of internet content is transitory. For example past discussion on R38 of the emulator is probably all sources, but is of little use to the community going forward.
Each one contributes to the project. The real questions becomes how it is mined so that the useful bits are captured and the other stuff fades into history.
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
I use the Discord channels, when I need a more real time "chat style" interaction with others. The forum is then better suited of tracking decisions, uploading software in the download section, asking general questions to a broader audience.
The Facebook thingy I don't use, I don't have an account and never will.
The Facebook thingy I don't use, I don't have an account and never will.
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
When discussion occurs in a chatroom, it's meant only for the people there at the time, and it's meant to get lost afterwards.
When discussion occurs on a discussion forum, it's there and will stay there for all to find, and months later, someone can find it and add to it, or reference it.
If you'd like more activity here on the forums, discard the idea that your question, info, or topic is "too small" or "too silly" to warrant a forum thread, because that's what causes people to think the chat room is better.
Also, if you're about to make a thread in Discord, or open a new room in Discord, you might be overlooking the forums.
When discussion occurs on a discussion forum, it's there and will stay there for all to find, and months later, someone can find it and add to it, or reference it.
If you'd like more activity here on the forums, discard the idea that your question, info, or topic is "too small" or "too silly" to warrant a forum thread, because that's what causes people to think the chat room is better.
Also, if you're about to make a thread in Discord, or open a new room in Discord, you might be overlooking the forums.
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
Perhaps not a terribly popular opinion, but I believe that Discord saved the X16.
Very few people ever experienced what the X16 was like when the keyboard went through VIA1. Even at 2MHz when it "worked", it still dropped about every third to every fourth keystroke. It was miserable and completely ill-suited for any purpose; not to mention that a huge percentage of every frame was spent checking to see if the keyboard had anything for us. The only want to get a "no" to that question was to give up waiting on the keyboard to send something.
The official X16 Dev Team was radio silent, and the community was in the dark with respect to status. What was needed was for some hardware to make its way into the hands of the right person or people in the community who could solve the keyboard issue. With the Dev Team not willing to meet that bar, the only other option was for someone to independently design hardware and work with the community to solve the problems that were intractable to the Dev team.
That's exactly what I did, but I could not do it either here or on the FB group because of the strict "no clones" rule. Had it not been for Discord, that one rule would have sunk the X16. Even on Discord I had to butt heads with some well-regarded folks on this point and even today it is still a point of minor contention. But ultimately, all of these hardware issues that had the project stalled for nearly two years were sorted out on my hardware in a few months because the Discord server was available and not run by the Dev Team.
There's a lesson about being open in there that has still not been completely internalized by the Dev Team, which is why major changes like running the ROM bank lines to the expansion slots came out of the blue and led to a months-long, but ultimately successful, campaign by me to get VPB to reset the ROM bank register so that every bank in a cartridge didn't have to contain an interrupt vector table. As a point of reference, I recognized the problem and started suggesting the fix within a week of learning of the cartridge support change, but it would take a few months before the bodge to the Dev board became official. Such a campaign would not have worked here or on FB. Something like Discord was needed.
Very few people ever experienced what the X16 was like when the keyboard went through VIA1. Even at 2MHz when it "worked", it still dropped about every third to every fourth keystroke. It was miserable and completely ill-suited for any purpose; not to mention that a huge percentage of every frame was spent checking to see if the keyboard had anything for us. The only want to get a "no" to that question was to give up waiting on the keyboard to send something.
The official X16 Dev Team was radio silent, and the community was in the dark with respect to status. What was needed was for some hardware to make its way into the hands of the right person or people in the community who could solve the keyboard issue. With the Dev Team not willing to meet that bar, the only other option was for someone to independently design hardware and work with the community to solve the problems that were intractable to the Dev team.
That's exactly what I did, but I could not do it either here or on the FB group because of the strict "no clones" rule. Had it not been for Discord, that one rule would have sunk the X16. Even on Discord I had to butt heads with some well-regarded folks on this point and even today it is still a point of minor contention. But ultimately, all of these hardware issues that had the project stalled for nearly two years were sorted out on my hardware in a few months because the Discord server was available and not run by the Dev Team.
There's a lesson about being open in there that has still not been completely internalized by the Dev Team, which is why major changes like running the ROM bank lines to the expansion slots came out of the blue and led to a months-long, but ultimately successful, campaign by me to get VPB to reset the ROM bank register so that every bank in a cartridge didn't have to contain an interrupt vector table. As a point of reference, I recognized the problem and started suggesting the fix within a week of learning of the cartridge support change, but it would take a few months before the bodge to the Dev board became official. Such a campaign would not have worked here or on FB. Something like Discord was needed.
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Ed Minchau
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:30 pm
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
Yeah, if it's something you need a quick response and a lot of quick collaboration, transient conversation on Discord is fine. And for stuff that needs some longevity, the forum is better. And github has a place in the ecosystem too. Facebook, well, it's really only good for getting the word out, and that peaked about the time the Commander X16 project started.
Re: Use of Discord/FB a disappointment
I've found discord to be indispensable when it comes to getting help with my X16 related endeavors. Real time chat and voice chat are extremely powerful tools for collaboration, so much that the downsides are far outweighed.
I'd love a less walled garden approach, but I'm unaware of anything available (at least without footing a hefty bill). I think everyone here is open to suggestions, but the suggestion of "just don't use an indispensable tool" is never going to be taken seriously. If someone can point me to an open, free (as in beer), and easily accessible platform for real time voice/video/screenshare and text chat, I'll be the first one there. Short of that, I'm sticking with discord.
I'd love a less walled garden approach, but I'm unaware of anything available (at least without footing a hefty bill). I think everyone here is open to suggestions, but the suggestion of "just don't use an indispensable tool" is never going to be taken seriously. If someone can point me to an open, free (as in beer), and easily accessible platform for real time voice/video/screenshare and text chat, I'll be the first one there. Short of that, I'm sticking with discord.