Commander X16 vs. Mega 65

[Robinkle]

I think I will get the X16 firstly. Once I get the hang of the programming, I might consider the MEGA65 out of curiosity.

The X16 does seem to trigger my nostalgia on the basis of the architecture and limitations.

The Mega65 seems to trigger my nostalgia on the basis of physical design.



Nothing is perfect, would probably, be without a doubt, happy with either or both.



I like these for different reasons.



X16:

• 
  Strictly consistent with the 8-bit experience. The MEGA65 is a bit too much on the modern side.
  


• 
  Expansion slots.
  


• 
  Adds some performance compared to the old computers, and not by too much.
  


• 
  New platform.
  


• 
  FM tone generator.
  


• 
  SNES gamepad support. (USB would've been better though).
  


• 
  The Community.
  

Omega 65:

• 
  C64 compatibility.
  


• 
  Formfactor / Classic Design. This gives some nostalgic feel, because modern computers aren't built like this today.
  


• 
  HDMI output.
  


• 
  Mechanical keys as standard.
  


• 
  I kinda like the idea of a floppy drive. Too bad more advanced features defeats it's purpose.
  

 

[TomXP411]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:08 PM, John Chow Seymour said:

Wait, the Ultimate C64 runs at 48MHz? I don't remember that from Gideon's website, so I checked again again just now and I still don't see anything about CPU speed.  I assumed it emulated the C64 at the usual speed.

Yes, it's a real thing. Gideon released the turbo update back in June, but I don't think he's advertising that feature yet.

If you want to talk more about it, I started a new thread so we don't hijack this one:

 


 

[painintheworld]

I will definitely be buying the Mega 65 and X16...and will have the new cost reduced C256 very shortly.

The main draw for the X16 for me is that the userbase will be huge, relatively speaking. I do worry that the lack of updates will negatively impact that potential large userbase - as they move on to other things. I thought this forum was the main repository of X16 stuff; I can’t stomach doing much on Facebook these days. I suppose if announcements will be made over there then I could make a sock puppet to use.

 

I’m torn on the Mega 65’s floppy drive. I keep three 5-1/4 floppy drives connected to an Atari 800XL, but I also use modern storage devices with it (including FujiNet, which is the bee’s knees). I have a soft spot for the old school home computer style computer in the keyboard styling of the Mega. 

 



 

 

[dr.diesel]

I don't say much around here but my interest is community involvement.  I'm interested in an active community with both hardware and software for the foreseeable future and I think the full size X16 is the ticket!

Looks like things are taking shape and Dave will probably have something to show the community shortly.

[Perifractic]

I will definitely be buying the Mega 65 and X16...and will have the new cost reduced C256 very shortly.
The main draw for the X16 for me is that the userbase will be huge, relatively speaking. I do worry that the lack of updates will negatively impact that potential large userbase - as they move on to other things. I thought this forum was the main repository of X16 stuff; I can’t stomach doing much on Facebook these days. I suppose if announcements will be made over there then I could make a sock puppet to use.
 
I’m torn on the Mega 65’s floppy drive. I keep three 5-1/4 floppy drives connected to an Atari 800XL, but I also use modern storage devices with it (including FujiNet, which is the bee’s knees). I have a soft spot for the old school home computer style computer in the keyboard styling of the Mega. 
 

 
 

Official updates will always be made here, and usually first.

[Ffin72]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:14 PM, Perifractic said:

What drew you here?

Just a love for the simplicity of 8 bit systems and the power and flexibility of 16 bit systems. I was never "tribal" in my support of any platform, I've always been a Commodore kid but most of my friends and relatives had Spectrums, so I spent most of my teens wanting one of everything ?

 

I have thought for some time that a text based, 8 bit system with a built-in programming language would be far more suitable for kids than a Windows PC with the distractions of the internet and social media (and worse), even though I'm not a parent, so I hope that both platforms succeed and produce a new generation of code and hardware hackers.

[paulscottrobson]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:46 PM, Ffin72 said:

I have thought for some time that a text based, 8 bit system with a built-in programming language would be far more suitable for kids than a Windows PC with the distractions of the internet and social media (and worse), even though I'm not a parent, so I hope that both platforms succeed and produce a new generation of code and hardware hackers.

Absolutely. But you don't want it running Microsoft BASIC. It's horrible. You also need more powerful keywords - something like STOS basically.

[rje]

2 hours ago, paulscottrobson said:

Absolutely. But you don't want it running Microsoft BASIC. It's horrible. You also need more powerful keywords - something like STOS basically.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOS_BASIC :

Quote

...the high-level graphics and sound commands it offers is suitable for developing multimedia software without knowledge of the internals of the Atari ST.

Ah, yes, I agree with Paul.  You need more than the 8K Commodore BASIC 2.0.

I think it would fly with the EQUIVALENT of:

• 
  The sound and graphics extensions to BASIC 2.0 from Martin Kees' "SuperBASIC" (Compute's Second Book of Commodore 64, pp215+).  3K expansion of BASIC 2.0.
  


• 
  The "Disk  Wedge" functions currently in the X16.  
  


• 
  Labels instead of line numbers. 
  

...and it would take 16K, I'm sure.

[TomXP411]

5 hours ago, paulscottrobson said:

Absolutely. But you don't want it running Microsoft BASIC. It's horrible. You also need more powerful keywords - something like STOS basically.

While I mostly think we've moved on from the need for line numbered BASIC in Computer Science, I don't see a lot of replacements that can fill the shoes of Advanced BASIC as a first language:

1. BASIC is everywhere. Or it was in the 80s. So it meant that if you learned on the Apple, Atari, Commodore, or PC, you could still take your skills to any other computer platform and use it. 

2. It didn't require compilers or a runtime, so you can just type RUN and see your program work.

3. Graphics routines make it an attractive option for many things, even teaching how GUIs work. (Commodore needs a BASIC extender.) 

Python is often pushed as a starter language, but it has too many dependencies and requires too much setup. There's no simple way to simply say "draw a box on the screen" and actually have that happen. Maybe if someone wrote a BASIC-like runtime for Python, that could work.

In the meantime, I think something like the Maximite comes very close to meeting those goals.. but it's a single-purpose computer. What I'd like to see in the classrooms is, perhaps, something like the Maximite operating software running on a desktop operating system. So when you start the runtime environment, you're looking at the Maximite interface, but you still have a modern PC that can be eventually used for other programming languages and applications. 

So in some ways, this makes the Commander emulator actually more attractive for a classroom environment than the actual Commander.... and as i say that, I'm starting to picture something like a bare metal BASIC OS for the Raspberry Pi... I need to see if there's something like that out there. 

 

[paulscottrobson]

4 hours ago, rje said:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOS_BASIC :



Ah, yes, I agree with Paul.  You need more than the 8K Commodore BASIC 2.0.



I think it would fly with the EQUIVALENT of:

• 
  The sound and graphics extensions to BASIC 2.0 from Martin Kees' "SuperBASIC" (Compute's Second Book of Commodore 64, pp215+).  3K expansion of BASIC 2.0.
  


• 
  The "Disk  Wedge" functions currently in the X16.  
  


• 
  Labels instead of line numbers. 
  

...and it would take 16K, I'm sure.

Depends. You could probably chuck all the floating point stuff in its entirety ; it's only there really because MS Basic comes from Dartmouth Basic. No-one's going to do their accounts on an X16. Whether 16 or 32 bit integers, it's questionable. The nice thing about STOS is the bank/task switching design, so you can have multiple programs running at once ; a sprite editor in one block, tile editor in another, music editor in a third, and so on. Might as well add in REPEAT/WHILE/Block IF/ELSE/ENDIF and named Procedures ; doesn't take up much space, nor do locals.