Prototype #2 is aliiiive!

m00dawg · Post by **m00dawg** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:32 pm

Moving it to the ZP makes things faster though yeah? Splitting hairs, but I think I would have preferred them to have been at the top of the ZP than the bottom but I'm very green when it comes to assembly language programming - though it is something I'm excited to get further into!

One thing I was wondering about was the need for using an ATX power supply. I've seen ITX motherboards that have barrel connector connections for power so I don't know if an ATX supply is strictly required here, but seems to be causing some headaches. I think I'd personally favor a normal ole mechanical power switch myself. The motherboard itself runs on 5V I thought? Perhaps the VERA is requiring 3.3V here but even then, making a DC-to-DC supply wouldn't be too troublesome (perhaps less than trying to figure out the soft switch).

Just thinking aloud there, I trust that the team knows what they are doing more than I ? Just seemed like a pretty big headache for Kevin for such a simple (but important) function like turning the machine off and on hehe.

StephenHorn · Post by **StephenHorn** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:48 pm

5 minutes ago, m00dawg said:

Moving it to the ZP makes things faster though yeah? Splitting hairs, but I think I would have preferred them to have been at the top of the ZP than the bottom but I'm very green when it comes to assembly language programming - though it is something I'm excited to get further into!

One thing I was wondering about was the need for using an ATX power supply. I've seen ITX motherboards that have barrel connector connections for power so I don't know if an ATX supply is strictly required here, but seems to be causing some headaches. I think I'd personally favor a normal ole mechanical power switch myself. The motherboard itself runs on 5V I thought? Perhaps the VERA is requiring 3.3V here but even then, making a DC-to-DC supply wouldn't be too troublesome (perhaps less than trying to figure out the soft switch).

Just thinking aloud there, I trust that the team knows what they are doing more than I ? Just seemed like a pretty big headache for Kevin for such a simple (but important) function like turning the machine off and on hehe.

My guess is the power supply and power switch decisions stem from choice for their case. Instead of designing an entirely custom case, they're modifying an existing case design, because this is much more cost effective.

m00dawg · Post by **m00dawg** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:54 pm

2 minutes ago, StephenHorn said:

My guess is the power supply and power switch decisions stem from choice for their case. Instead of designing an entirely custom case, they're modifying an existing case design, because this is much more cost effective.

Yep agreed, although I've also seen cases which are built around just a barrel jack. A space where the PSU might go could be reserved for perhaps a small custom DC-DC power board if required and where the AC plug goes could be just replaced by a simple barrel jack panel. Or so was my thought. I know Kevin mentioned shenaigans if using a gigantic modern PC supply with the X16, though if the ITX case comes with it's own PSU then it's more moot. Still...I do wonder if - well, I guess there can't be a way to avoid soft-power without controlling the power on the AC side (and I'm sure that's something they do not want to do - I remember shocking myself when trying to figure out the rocker switch on an AT supply heh). I know there some purism but I wonder, if an ATTiny85 or similar is all that's needed to solve the soft power issue, it's probably worth it (it is a through hole part at least). If all the thing is doing is managing soft power I think that's just fine *shrug*

kktos · Post by **kktos** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:01 pm

1 hour ago, m00dawg said:

Moving it to the ZP makes things faster though yeah?

yes indeed.

But my point was about coherence (there aesthetics too).

It is more coherent to have all "related" things at the same place.

Here, we will have 2 system switches in the ZP, all others in $9F00.

So as the ZP is faster to access, let's have all the sys switches in the ZP.

Anyway, I do agree it's not that important ?

It's just I like my system like my whisky, neat ?

Cyber · Post by **Cyber** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:01 pm

1 hour ago, m00dawg said:

I've also seen cases which are built around just a barrel jack. A space where the PSU might go could be reserved for perhaps a small custom DC-DC power board if required and where the AC plug goes could be just replaced by a simple barrel jack panel.

Same thoughts here, so I also don't understand the point of ATX PSU yet...

But I patiently hope X16 team will reveal the reasons.

Lorin Millsap · Post by **Lorin Millsap** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:27 pm

yes indeed.
But my point was about coherence (there aesthetics too).
It is more coherent to have all "related" things at the same place.
Here, we will have 2 system switches in the ZP, all others in $9F00.

So as the ZP is faster to access, let's have all the sys switches in the ZP.
Anyway, I do agree it's not that important [emoji846]
It's just I like my system like my whisky, neat [emoji6]

Because the moment you do that you no longer have access to ZP for use in your programs and that is a really bad thing. Use if ZP isn’t a little faster it’s a lot faster. ZP can be thought of almost like 256 processor registers. The 6510 had an IO port built in at $00 and $01.

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Lorin Millsap · Post by **Lorin Millsap** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:29 pm

Same thoughts here, so I also don't understand the point of ATX PSU yet...
But I patiently hope X16 team will reveal the reasons.

Because the price deal on the cases gives us a power supply built in. It’s less expensive than sourcing an external low noise power supply and it gives us multiple voltages.

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kktos · Post by **kktos** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:31 pm

1 minute ago, Lorin Millsap said:

-1- Because the moment you do that you no longer have access to ZP for use in your programs and that is a really bad thing.

-2-Use if ZP isn’t a little faster it’s a lot faster. ZP can be thought of almost like 256 processor registers.

-3- The 6510 had an IO port built in at $00 and $01.

.1 utterly correct. I was simply being the devil advocate.

.2 Ganz Genau. Again, right to the point

.3 That does mean it's right ;oD

Cyber · Post by **Cyber** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:55 pm

Because the price deal on the cases gives us a power supply built in. It’s less expensive than sourcing an external low noise power supply and it gives us multiple voltages.

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Thank you! That's very clear point.
But why not just put a rocker switch on "power on" and "ground" pins of PSU?

kktos · Post by **kktos** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:38 pm

Just thinking.... as we have crossed the bridge already and placed system switches in ZP, what about VERA's ?

They are pretty often accessed so to have the ZP short & fast access may be beneficial for the whole system....