Commander X16

On 12/19/2021 at 5:37 PM, Tatwi said:

I was just thinking it would be nice if BASIC programs could seamlessly run at close to machine language speed by simply typing the RUN command as usual, thus changing literally none of the experience of using BASIC and none of documentation, beside "type BASIC++ and your program will run faster".

On 12/20/2021 at 3:12 AM, paulscottrobson said:

This is easy. Clock your 6502 at 50Hz, build in a 32 bit hardware multiplier (maybe), and have a BASIC which is optimised for speed. That is fast *enough*. If you had a BBC Micro style assembler built in to it, then that could do the heavy lifting when you need flat out speed.



The other alternative is to cross compile on a PC and upload to the X16.

On 12/20/2021 at 5:51 PM, TomXP411 said:

50 Hz is pretty slow... that would execute maybe 10-15 machine instructions per second... A simple PRINT statement would take several seconds to print one line. 



I will say that the 48MHz mode on the Ultimate 64 runs pretty fast. Even interpreted BASIC on the U64 runs fast enough you'd think it was compiled C code. 

On 12/20/2021 at 10:51 PM, TomXP411 said:

50 Hz is pretty slow... that would execute maybe 10-15 machine instructions per second... A simple PRINT statement would take several seconds to print one line. 



I will say that the 48MHz mode on the Ultimate 64 runs pretty fast. Even interpreted BASIC on the U64 runs fast enough you'd think it was compiled C code. 

On 12/18/2021 at 10:10 AM, paulscottrobson said:

The whole thing is utterly insane.



If you want an authentic retro experience, expect the retro problems. The machines aren't that quick and the graphics aren't that great.



There's a thing called the "Cerberus 2080". It's a twin 6502/Z80 machine that uses a couple of CPLDs to replace a wodge of TTL. Graphics are monochrome UDGs. If you want a kit, accessible hardware go for that sort of thing. Or one of the ZX81 or Spectrum clones maybe.



Or just say s*d it and go down the Commodore X8 type route and push the CPU up as fast as it will go.  Same route as the Spectrum Next, and the Mega 65. Something that's fairly technically close to the original idea, cheap to build and doesn't waste time on endless timing issues trying to glue things together.



Over engineered solutions to problems created by ridiculous design decisions. Why do we have to have a pretend Vic20 ; what happened to the concept of it being educational. I'm an ex-teacher who started in 1985 and I'd have avoided Microsoft BASIC *then*. Now it should be viewed as a form of child abuse.



It's *way* easier to rewrite the Kernel and BASIC than it is to continually try to hack it to get something vaguely acceptable. The code is awful, incomprehensible and chaotic. 



And we're still stuck with the bizarre filesystem concepts that originate in the old PET IEEE488 design, so presumably half a dozen ancient typeins will work.