Commander X16

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 pm Is this something that must be fixed on a game/screen layout level by reducing the area for screen content? Or can I simply look up the relevant VERA registers that I vaguely remember, write code to detect "old man using a CRT" mode and scale the whole screen down? That should be happening by default, anyway.

Well, you can always scan the relevant VERA registers to detect what mode the VERA is using for video output. I suppose you could infer "old man using a CRT" from one of the possible values.

Back in my day, when someone was using a VGA connector, they were responsible for configuring their monitor to address overscan. Composite modes, however, were the system or game's responsibility to keep important assets within a "safe area". In fact, even today modern game devs that work on consoles have the concept of a "safe frame" that they're supposed to obey when designing UIs, and this is why Box16 has for a long time had the ability to overlay a "safety frame" to indicate what portions of the display were likely to be hidden by overscan.

StephenHorn wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:16 pm Well, you can always scan the relevant VERA registers to detect what mode the VERA is using for video output. I suppose you could infer "old man using a CRT" from one of the possible values.

Thank you, that was very helpful. The amount of knowledge has increased by 0%.

It's the DPI scaling problem all over again!

I agree 100% with Adrian on the screen resolution. It really doesn't look good to have non-integer scaling, so that should be the absolute last-resort at-all-costs compatibility mode option.

Otherwise, I was going to see how it feels to have my games "insist" on using one of the bordered screen modes (whatever the least rude way to do so is), and then to just design all of my visuals and layouts around that size. Then later, experiment with how switching between "full screen" and "reduced screen" would work engine-wise, or how the two can be blended.

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:52 pm

StephenHorn wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:16 pm Well, you can always scan the relevant VERA registers to detect what mode the VERA is using for video output. I suppose you could infer "old man using a CRT" from one of the possible values.

Thank you, that was very helpful. The amount of knowledge has increased by 0%.

Read $9F29 and check which output mode is enabled. VGA is non-overscan, NTSC is overscan, RGB is probably non-overscan but I'm not sure.

DragWx wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 9:23 pm

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:52 pm

StephenHorn wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:16 pm Well, you can always scan the relevant VERA registers to detect what mode the VERA is using for video output. I suppose you could infer "old man using a CRT" from one of the possible values.

Thank you, that was very helpful. The amount of knowledge has increased by 0%.

Read $9F29 and check which output mode is enabled. VGA is non-overscan, NTSC is overscan, RGB is probably non-overscan but I'm not sure.

Yes, this.

See the VERA Programmer's Reference Guide: https://github.com/X16Community/x16-doc ... #registers
and https://github.com/X16Community/x16-doc ... y-composer

StephenHorn wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:49 am

GTR3QQ wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 7:51 am I know he has enough for now.
Fine then. We put a pin in it.

I only recently join in, is every video for cx16 a PR nightmare lately?
Why would those mobs leaving Karen comments?Are the paid by rival?
Something should be done to control it I think.

The only "PR nightmare" that I'm aware of is from a certain vocal and adversarial minority from a certain product that envisions itself a competitor to the Commander X16.

I call him "He-who-shall-not-be-named", as much because I can't actually remember the guy's name what designed this so-called competitor. They took a very combative position against the Commander X16 in their marketing efforts, for reasons that we don't quite understand. Our best guess is they want to leech off of the X16's name recognition and appeal to users who have criticized some of the design decisions that were made for the X16. Some of their fans have adopted this aggressive, combative attitude and like to go out of their way to find X16-related content and articles, arguing in the comments with anyone who favors or is sympathetic towards the X16, and promoting their "competitor".

It's a lot of drama. Unfortunately, we fed into it a bit by banning direct mention of the project or its creator here. (I'd link to the announcement of the decision, but I can't actually find it, and "Teh Rules" don't directly call out the project or its creator.) But at the same time, we felt a need to make a formal decision that would protect these forums from trolls and drama queens coming and stirring up trouble for trouble's sake.

idk, isn't that can be qualified as people being paid/aggravated?
This is a hot potato.
Those who with second agenda will make some to try their excrements out. And those who buy one will be encouraged to find sense of superiority by doing more advertising.

This is a positive feedback loop!

Whoever done this must have it all thought out, cause you can't even call them unfair advantage in competition and slap them with C&D. That will just be utilized sending on Twitter or anything to get even more attention.

There is only so much price that Murray can cut before facing quality issues. If any quality issues is caught then they can also get attentions.

Also, they're digging into David's personal life. I'm living in Southwest Asia, even I know P.C. is such a huge thing over the America that this will surely work great for them.


What're next steps? You can't just sit in the dusk and waiting while things already gone so bad?

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:52 pm Thank you, that was very helpful. The amount of knowledge has increased by 0%.

Oof. Alrighty then, sorry that didn't come across as an attempt to be helpful. I guess I'll put links to the documentation in my signature so that omitting them in a post won't be quite to unhelpful in the future. From your previous post, I'd assumed you were already planning to refer to them to find the appropriate registers and were, instead, asking after the validity of that strategy as a practical solution.

Edit: Then again, guess I can't just add the links I want because the added URLs exceed the signature's maximum length.

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 pm overscan.jpg
Is this something that must be fixed on a game/screen layout level by reducing the area for screen content? Or can I simply look up the relevant VERA registers that I vaguely remember, write code to detect "old man using a CRT" mode and scale the whole screen down? That should be happening by default, anyway.

Unfortunately, the scaling and whatnot is controlled by the game, so you can't really do anything on the software side while playing a game like that. You'd just have to adjust things on your monitor.

If you were in the BASIC editor you could change the scaling or the screen mode with the "menu" command, which lets you adjust those things.

StephenHorn wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 2:57 am

grml wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:52 pm Thank you, that was very helpful. The amount of knowledge has increased by 0%.

Oof. Alrighty then, sorry that didn't come across as an attempt to be helpful. I guess I'll put links to the documentation in my signature so that omitting them in a post won't be quite to unhelpful in the future.

Oof. I just wanted to know, from the undisputed experts, if the old men who insist on using outdated tech can be made happy by adjusting the scaling registers (easy) or if I'd have to make substantial changes to the game (not gonna happen). No details, or tales about how you did it back in the olden days when father time himself made screens from tears and pain, just a simple yes or no.

It's more of a social issue, if you really think about it. Those poor old men. We really shouldn't enable them and their weird behavior. Some of them even think they're still relevant, with their old screens and their intentionally crippled hardware.

Well, that went different.

What I mean is that when I posted the original link to the video I thought I'd see a lot of enthusiasm for it and the X16. The thread came to be a discussion of the look (and choice) of the sound chips, about the project detractors and then discussion of VERA operations. I didn't foresee those at all, but should have given the other posts on the net. While they are very valuable to the community, it perhaps seems to have created the unfortunate side-effect of division amongst those who post here. I'm sorry for that.

This morning I went out with a local sea kayaking club that I belong to; it was an easy, relaxing & enjoyable paddle. In talks with others I though about why the kayaking club works. Initially, I believed it was just all the great people who volunteer their time to support the club - the board, the trip organizers, the web admins, ect. On further reflection I came to the conclusion it was more the culture that all those volunteers had created along the way that makes the club the success that it is.

To that, I believe that the X16 will be a success, not so much because it is the perfect computer, but because all the volunteers who are creating the community around the project. Perhaps this is why the home computer market was successful in the 80's, It wasn't the 8 bit machines and all their limitations due to technology and marketing, but the people who bought them and created the communities around those machines.

So with that thought I want to thank all those who make the community what it is today and what it will be when the production units ship.