Commander X16

On 10/7/2021 at 12:51 PM, BruceMcF said:

Or, just possibly, they are doing something to sort out the new development timeline that takes time. He has already mentioned in discussion on FB that the Vera designer is working on a more compatible FPGA system ... which might, bear in mind, be implemented on a larger FPGA that he may have on hand or that he might have had to obtain.

Not everyone is on FB. If he has given updates, he should post those updates here. That is my point. 

"Then why hasn't David, or another representative of this project, come on here and told us that plan yet?" (on this highly visible forum -- the central location for all news about the project).

Some people left FB, Twitter, Youtube, etc. after those platforms became extremely political a few years ago. 

On 10/7/2021 at 6:05 AM, Tatwi said:

1. If you want, you can already do that. BMC64 is an ARM "bare metal" version of VICE for the Pi products. The PET even runs on the $5 Pi Zero, even software upgraded to be a SuperPET.



2. Even the best software emulation has problems, such as input lag and incompatibility, where FPGA implementations do not.



FPGA = the physical circuit schematic built into a single integrated circuit (IC)



IC = a bunch of transistors in a single package rather than having fifty bajillion of them individually soldered to the board (plus other linear circuit components.



Bottom line here folks is that an FPGA implementation is functionally identical to an IC + discreet component implementation, because the FPGA is literally the same circuity built into a different package.

I like FPGA and think it is a great solution to the shortcomings of software emulation. Just one little nitpick: An FPGA implementation can be functionally identical, but it all depends on the skill of the person or team. I've seen lousy FPGA implementations, but agreed, the best of FPGA should be better than the best of software emulation.

On 10/7/2021 at 11:30 AM, maktos said:

ANY OF YOU, PLEASE, tell me what the new gameplan is. And I will respond, "Then why hasn't David, or another representative of this project, come on here and told us that plan yet?" Check and mate.

About 20 years ago I lost a job when the .com bubble burst. I was effectively unemployed or severely under employed for about 5 years. Debt that was easily serviced at my old income was impossible to handle with my new normal. Creditors called all the time demanding I tell them when I would be paying them, and while I could have lied to them just to get them off the phone, I didn't do that. Until I knew what my circumstances were telling them anything was just a fairy tale at best or a lie at worst.

I think x16 is in a similar situation. As David has said (perhaps not here, but the information is available here because it has been copied to these forums) x8 wound up not being close enough to x16. I think it would be fair to say that he regrets discussing x8 now when it didn't pan out, and the last thing he wants to do is compound past disappointment with potential future disappointment if something new doesn't work out.

I'm not David, I can't speak for David, and I'm not speaking for David. I just know from my own past life experiences how I would feel at the moment based on what is known. If I have been put in a position where I couldn't follow through due to circumstances beyond my control, I certainly am going to avoid complicating it with more things that might not happen.

I do know directly that David has many irons in the fire. He and I are working on 128 Robots. He is working with at least 4 other people who are working on other ports of Robots. He went to VCFMW. He has videos to produce as part of his livelihood. He has merchandise orders to fulfill on a daily basis. He has a family.

x16 is going to happen in one form or another. The project up to now has had a policy of giving updates when info was available. David thought info was available, he shared it, it didn't pan out. I have no problem understanding why he might be a bit shy to release even more information until he knows for a certainty that it is 100%. Getting one thing wrong (x8) is not the end of the world, but if he complicates it by sharing every fragment of information, he will develop a reputation as the boy who cries wolf, and I doubt he wants that. I know I wouldn't.

Oh, so you're comparing the X16 project to a man who lost his job during the dotcom bubble, deep in debt, and besieged by creditors? My confidence level in the X16 project is improving already. ?

You're basically proving my point.

If I were one of those creditors, and I saw you make a super visible post (on your main channel of communication) talking about EVERYTHING being on the table: declaring bankruptcy, leaving the country, becoming a nomad, etc. and then I heard nothing for months, I would be quite worried. My confidence level in ever seeing my money again would be close to zero.

That is what David did in the OP, BTW. Just re-read it if you don't believe me. Any illusions of "I have this under control" or "I have a plan, just be patient" were brutally shattered.

He didn't outright say the project is dead, just that "people don't live forever" and "Grandma is very sick, Johnny." Just put two and two together. The substance of his next announcement isn't too hard to guess!

Again, you're proving my point here. We (supporters of the X16) should all be worried. Not just because we're impatient and this project has been years in-the-making -- but since August 19, 2021 in particular. WE didn't lose confidence in "the plan all along" -- David himself shredded that plan very publicly and dramatically, and we haven't heard anything official from him since. Not the way to inspire confidence. That's all I'm saying.

And I'm the biggest fan of this project. Well, tied for first with a bunch of other people, but I digress.

 

On 10/7/2021 at 12:42 PM, maktos said:

Oh, so you're comparing the X16 project to a man who lost his job during the dotcom bubble, deep in debt, and besieged by creditors? My confidence level in the X16 project is improving already. ?

You make a supposition that I was trying to disprove a point. I was trying to explain why more information wasn't forthcoming. If you want to take that as a "win" you can, but the point was not "comparing to bankruptcy" it was "if you don't have solid knowledge to share, you don't share, because if you do, people start making suppositions on how bad things are".

On 10/7/2021 at 12:56 PM, Scott Robison said:

You make a supposition that I was trying to disprove a point. I was trying to explain why more information wasn't forthcoming. If you want to take that as a "win" you can, but the point was not "comparing to bankruptcy" it was "if you don't have solid knowledge to share, you don't share, because if you do, people start making suppositions on how bad things are".

I might event point out that this is an excellent example of why someone in David's position might not post every thought: People who, for whatever reason, do not understand the point and read more into it than intended.

On 10/7/2021 at 2:42 PM, maktos said:

...



He didn't outright say the project is dead, just that "people don't live forever" and "Grandma is very sick, Johnny." Just put two and two together. The substance of his next announcement isn't too hard to guess! ...



 

He did outright say in this very thread that the X16p will be coming out in some form, so the strong suggestion you are making that the next announcement is analogous to "Grandma has gone to heaven and we are going to be saying goodbye to her this coming Saturday" seems to be unwarranted.

That in itself really ought to be taken into account when engaging in the most panicky reading of the original post in this thread. Not only did it say or suggest nothing about cancelling the X16p, but anyone who might be tempted to jumping to a conclusion should realize it didn't allude or imply that in any way whatsoever.

One thing this thread should make clear: people have become passionate about this machine.  One way or another, it will happen.

Quote

 



"people start making suppositions on how bad things are".







 

I would make one correction to your above quote: RIGHTFULLY making suppositions.

Considering that in 100 out of 100 cases, no update after a DOWNER or BAD NEWS post means "I can't honestly say anything that will rule out your worst fears, at this time".

Again: it wasn't my idea to post a major public announcement calling into question the whole project, the plan thus far, the feasibility of this project, and its future existence. David really seemed to put all options on the table. Even cancelling the project -- he didn't say outright that was the case (in fact he said the opposite), but everything he said in his post tends to support the idea that "this project is cancelled" or at least "I can't see a solution at this time, to bring this product to market as originally promised". Do you understand what I'm saying? He has admitted publicly HE HAS NO PLAN and he hasn't added anything over the weeks to say, "Ok, we've worked out a plan, guys..." even if that plan is to take 5 more years. We have NOTHING. I'm just stating a fact here.

If David knew what the heck he was going to do, to bring this thing to market he would have posted an update. That's not just one or two people jumping to such a conclusion, but that is the NATURAL, NORMAL conclusion based on logic and the facts as they are known publicly.

Considering that it doesn't cost anything to post an update. A simple "We are looking into a new source of components so we can start selling kits", "We dropped the idea of the Commander X8", or "We are currently developing an FPGA version of the Commander X16" doesn't time time OR money to post. If he has not posted such, there is a REASON he has not posted it. It is not by accident.

On 10/7/2021 at 1:43 PM, maktos said:

I would make one correction to your above quote: RIGHTFULLY making suppositions.



Considering that in 100 out of 100 cases, no update after a DOWNER or BAD NEWS post means "I can't honestly say anything that will rule out your worst fears, at this time".



Again: it wasn't my idea to post a major public announcement calling into question the whole project, the plan thus far, the feasibility of this project, and its future existence. David really seemed to put all options on the table. Even cancelling the project -- he didn't say outright that was the case (in fact he said the opposite), but everything he said in his post tends to support the idea that "this project is cancelled" or at least "I can't see a solution at this time, to bring this product to market as originally promised". Do you understand what I'm saying? He has admitted publicly HE HAS NO PLAN and he hasn't added anything over the weeks to say, "Ok, we've worked out a plan, guys..." even if that plan is to take 5 more years. We have NOTHING. I'm just stating a fact here.



If David knew what the heck he was going to do, to bring this thing to market he would have posted an update. That's not just one or two people jumping to such a conclusion, but that is the NATURAL, NORMAL conclusion based on logic and the facts as they are known publicly.



Considering that it doesn't cost anything to post an update. A simple "We are looking into a new source of components so we can start selling kits", "We dropped the idea of the Commander X8", or "We are currently developing an FPGA version of the Commander X16" doesn't time time OR money to post. If he has not posted such, there is a REASON he has not posted it. It is not by accident.

You can't say that you are rightfully making a supposition unless you have 100% knowledge. I certainly don't have 100% knowledge. I suspect I know more about it than you do (I don't have 100% knowledge on that, just a guess), but I'm not a member of the team or a spokesperson for the team. And whatever I *do* know is a drop in the bucket.

Would having more information be nice? Yes. Would some people twist that information? Yes. Is it worth it to the person who would provide that information? Only that person can say. I know for myself, it might not be worth it when I didn't have anything concrete to provide yet because the last public information I provided was that the VERA designer was looking at making something closer to the x16, and that has been less than two months.

The MEGA65 project has been in progress for what, 5 or 6 years? Maybe 7? And they are only just getting their first "released" version out at the end of this year (I hope). They've also not shared info as often as many would like. Didn't keep them from finishing.

As for the cost to post an update: If you only look at the incremental amount that must be paid to make a post, then I guess you are technically correct. The opportunity cost of "do I spend several hours trying to craft a post that cannot be misconstrued or misunderstood when I don't have all the facts yet, given the number of people who are already misconstruing or misunderstanding previous posts" or "do I work on videos and merchandise and games while other people who have expertise work to solve problems" seems like a easy choice from some points of view.

You go ahead and think whatever you want. If you want to believe the sky is falling, that's fine. I'm excited for the x16 whenever it happens.

As for the reason why no new posts from David here I think it's simple: He is a busy guy who has a lot of irons in the fire. When he has info to share, he will gladly share it. Until then he focuses his time and energy on productive tasks.