PET power supply question

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voidstar
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:05 am

PET power supply question

Post by voidstar »


Does anyone know a suitable replacement for the PET 4016 power supply?   I realize some of the circuit hardware is soldered right to the power supply, so there won't be any direct "drop in replacement."

My PET actually works OK - there may not be anything wrong with the power supply itself.     BUT - recently while the machine was powered off (but still plugged in), it made a brief sizzle noise and smoked a little bit (light wisps of white smoke that smelled somewhat like marshmallows).

I'm told there may have been a capacitor that "died open" (film capacitor?), which means while the machine can still work (powers on), there is a risk of further damage (even fire) -- which makes me curious, is that a general concern when working with very old electronics? (i.e. had I not been right next to the machine when it happened, reading a BASIC book -- I wouldn't even have known that this had happened; similarly if I had gotten a used PET, I don't know if this was a thing that had already happened to it). 

The PET is famous for having that "large" capacitor right next to the power supply and mainboard - I don't think the issue is referring to THAT capacitor.    Apparently there is a smaller capacitor somewhere right near where the power plugs in?  In the photo attached, what is the "made in HAITI" 8128 component?     

A week after this incident (again, the PET is working, I've used it for many hours since then -- but I keep the power cable unplugged when it's not in use) -- I was lightly cleaning off some dust inside the PET, but I noticed that "marshmallow" odor was still present.  It was faint, but the odor seemed to be strongest around this "8128" component -- implying the original incident was from inside that component (or perhaps the odor is just from the glue in the area being overheated? there is what appears to be some old brown glue on some of the wiring).   Something got hot and caused a bit of faint smoke - there were a couple styrafoam pieces that had fallen underneath the power supply over the years (slipped in by the creases around the monitor, I imagine), so originally I just thought it was one of those that had slipped into a bad spot.

 

So while that "8128" part might be the only thing suspect, then I got thinking: maybe I should just find a substitute for the entire power supply?  Except that, I'm quite bad a soldering ?   Just getting that "8128" part out cleanly to inspect the inside will be a chore (I'm wondering if the smoke was actually from some internal plastic in there melting?).

 

Thoughts appreciated, thanks!

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rje
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:00 pm
Location: Dallas Area

PET power supply question

Post by rje »


I know this has been covered on YouTube.  Check out Adrian's Digital Basement, or 8 Bit Show-and-Tell, or yes, even the 8 Bit Guy.

Hmmmm, I can't seem to find anything useful there for you...

Ah, found one troubleshooting paragraph here, for the PET 2001: http://www.dasarodesigns.com/projects/troubleshooting-common-problems-with-the-commodore-pet-2001/


Quote




Troubleshooting the power supply




Testing the power supply in a PET is (luckily) very easy. Just measure the voltage between the middle pin (ground) and the lower pin (+5V) of each of the four voltage regulators with the PET turned on. Each voltage should be in the range of 4.8 to 5.2V with less then about 50mV of ripple. If they each meet this spec, then the power supply is working fine.



If all the regulator outputs have roughly equal problems (low voltage or excessive ripple) then suspect the large filter capacitor on the chassis, one or more of the rectifier diodes on the board, a shorted regulator or bypass capacitor on the board or the power transformer. Troubleshoot / correct accordingly.



If only one (or two) of the regulator outputs shows excessive ripple or low voltage, then the problem is either a bad regulator or a one of the ICs fed by that regulator has shorted and is loading it down. If such a short has occurred, then the affected IC will quickly become quite hot. Feel each IC in the machine to identify the problem. Remove it and retest the rail. Else, try replacing the regulator. (You can carefully unsolder the output lead (lowest one) and solder a new one in ‘parallel’ to test before replacing it outright.) Replacements are easy to come by as the part is a standard 7805.



 

And, even this in the comments section of the same page:


Quote




Let me first explain a bit about the power supply. The Commodore PET uses a very simple linear power supply which consists of a power transformer, rectifier bridge, filter capacitor, and a set of four 78L05 +5V regulator chips. All of these parts except for the transformer and capacitor are on the PET motherboard.



Because of its simplicity, this power supply is very reliable – in fact I do not recommend even replacing the electrolytic filter capacitor unless it is known to be bad because it is overrated and of such high grade. In fact I have never seen one of them fail. In fact, the only part of the PET power supply which I have ever seen trouble with is the 7805 voltage regulators. Occasionally I have had to replace a failed one of those, but when they fail they do not appear to produce any kind of over voltage condition.



To summarize, while it is theoretically possible that a bad power supply could damage other parts of a PET, it is very unlikely. I have never seen this happen nor am I aware of it ever happening.



 

voidstar
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:05 am

PET power supply question

Post by voidstar »


Thanks! I sent Adrian a note about this question.    My question is more specifically in that component BEFORE the power supply (right after the power plug), so I'm mostly just seeing if he thinks it's any kind of "fire hazard" or not.  I really don't want to disassemble a fairly pristine original-parts PET unnecessarily.   I suppose I could just leave it alone, and accept that this PET should never be left plugged-in while unattended (which maybe is generally good advise for any "old electronics"?). 

Aside from verifying my programs still run on "the real thing" or once-in-awhile demos for visitors, I don't need to keep it plugged in.   It's just that peace of mind nagging thought while on travel "Did I leave that plugged in? Gosh, could my house burn down?" ?

Maybe it's excessive paranoia, like using non-sealed batteries in a solar-power system (i.e. people fret about the vapors, while some people think in any sizeable room it's probably not a concern).

 

voidstar 

voidstar
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:05 am

PET power supply question

Post by voidstar »


For reference, here is the smoke I witnessed just a few seconds after it had started (luckily the PET cover was already unscrewed and could be opened).    The system was OFF but still plugged in - we had just turned it off after testing a few BASIC programs (but kept it plugged in).  We were still in the area reading about some other BASIC programs, when I heard a slight noise (from the PET) -- and I quickly pulled the power plug (and open the top and snapped this photo, since it was still smoking -- which smelled slightly like marshmallows).

I figured the machine was ruined -- but a few hours later, I decided to just power it on again and see.  It still works fine and has since, I've used it for many hours (but I keep it unplugged now when not in use).   Initially I assumed it was just some stray styrafoam inside that had gotten heated and melted (they "evaporate" completely with no ash), but I'm just asking around to be sure.

 

If we hadn't still been around in the same room when it happened, I think we never would have been aware of the issue (well, if there is actually an issue - maybe it is nothing, except you know the saying: "where there's smoke, there's fire.")   Maybe it was the loose styrafoam that had found its way inside -- except as I was cleaning the system later, I couldn't help notice that the "MADE IN HAITI" piece had a strong "marshmallow" smell like that smoke had.

 

While I'd like to just let it go and be grateful the system still works - it could be an important awareness lesson when dealing with old vintage systems.   I now believe the smoke was coming from underneath the "black cover" behind the power supply (near the power plug) and not the power supply itself  (that black cover is sealed on the other side, so the smoke would have no where to go except the open side where the cables from that power plug go to the power supply -- i.e. basically behind the "MADE IN HAITI" piece in the original post earlier).   It's all still supposition, all I know is the system does still work -- I just don't want it happen again or risk further damage.

 

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