The main reason I've been following this project for years to be honest, is because I detest modern computers. Every version of windows I've ever had was a downgrade from the previous to me. It just seems like they keep stripping features with each version. To me the only 'improvement' newer systems have is games look prettier, and that's it. Otherwise, they keep getting less transparent with each generation.
I also detest everything the internet has become, and wish I could do things without who knows what snooping on me.
What I really want is a computer without wireless access and that I could keep as long as I wish. The commander x16 offers that. All its parts are replacable, so if something fries I can always replace that one part and keep the computer.
Of course, honestly, more than once I've questioned if I would really get what I want out of this thing. As I said in my introduction post, I'm a millenial, so I have had no experience with any 8-bit devices outside of the original gameboy and nes (I actually thought the NES was early 90s tech until recently, sersiouly, I had no idea that console I played so much when I was little was older than I was). Point is, this thing is a lot more primitive than I'm used to. As I also revealed in my introduction post, I'm mostly looking into make de-makes of games from around the year 2000. I have no idea if this machine could even handle some of the things I want to do, and some of those are probably too ambitious for a lone developer like me.
And either way, lets be real. You obviously can't buy computer components off a shelf anymore; I would forever need internet access to maintain this thing. Also, honestly I wouldn't trust any future peripherals (such as a monitor), so getting the privacy I desire is honestly a fool's errand. I mean, how could I ever know I can trust any monitor? I'm scared at times by mice, seriously. Yeah, I'm paranoid, even though I don't really have anything to hide (other than maybe my political opinions).
I was just browsing some other retro clone systems like this. One was of course that thing may by 'he who shall not be named'. I recall seeing a post on here banning all discussions of the man and his product, but I can't seem to find it now. Honestly, I wasn't too impressed by it. Integrated circuits with ultra tiny pins, and its clearly far more elaborate than this machine? No thanks. The only pluses in my eyes is that the processor is slightly faster and its z80 based, which from my understanding younger people are far more likely to be familiar with than the 6502. Not that such means anything in my case of course; I've never programmed on either (though I did contemplate trying to program on the ti-85 calculators a year or two ago). Besides, the guy's obviously an asshole, so why would I ever purchase anything from him? Also, I think he's genuinely scared of the commander x16. Why else would he be playing so dirty? I've also contemplated the color maximite in the past, but its took 'black-box' for me. Either way, its only available in Britain and living the US I clearly don't have pounds, so that's a bust no matter what. Even before this project began I was looking into the raspberry pi computers. Never liked them, too blackbox and the newer ones come with built-in wifi.
Today, I discovered some family of retro computers called Foenix (I found out about them on wikipedia). I can't find much about them other than their creator's personal youtube channel. They got some REALLY colorful cases I must say. The one for the a2560k in particular is really gorgeous to me. Reminds me of something you would've seen in the 2000s, and being 32 bit it would clearly be a more familiar system to me. Of course, I can't find anything on it, and I even found a post on youtube from just 1 year ago claiming there was absolutely NO software for it. Either way, the beauty of the cases made me suspicious from the start. If they look THAT extravagant, I can't help but think they're trying to compensate for something. I mean, the a2560k even has those freaking rainbow LEDs in it, which honestly to me spoil the look. Besides, its a whopping $1,000 dollars. So yeah, no thanks, the case is pretty much the only thing that appeals to me (on a side note, I wonder if it would be possible to get a case like that for this machine? I prefer black over white, and I'll be honest I never cared for the look of the cx16 case).
Either way, I'll be honest, I do have some gripes with the cx16. I never liked the decision to use an fpga in it (black box tech), or an oldstock part even if it is supposedly common. Of course, the only way to get my perfect system would be to make my own. I did contemplate that a while back, but its clearly out of my league. Modern programming degrees don't cover hardware at all, seriously. In middle school we actually had a class that was all about what the components of the computers from the time did. Didn't cover that at all though in those programming classes from just a few years ago. I don't even know anything about the c language, or assembly for that matter. And of course either way, if I did make my own computer I would have to make all the software for the thing myself! Making an OS or programing IDEs for a machine I have no experience with clearly would be over my head.
Honestly, I've been thinking a lot, maybe I need to just give up on computers. I can't stand what they've become, even less so after what I learned about the programming world in those programming classes. Essentially, I looked to this so I could return to what computers used to be. Honestly, that's probably just a fool's dream. I admit I do find genuine amusement in a simple transparent computer that I can actually comprehend, but that means this thing would be nothing more than a toy to me.
On that note, I sorta doubt I would even maintain interest in this thing. I've been a retrogramer for years, but honestly I rarely play my games I keep hoarding games I never get around to playing. I bought a freaking 2dsxl when my 3ds stopped working. I put it on charge and forgot about it for years. Now I'm worried I ruined the battery leaving it plugging in for litearl years. I even thought 2 games for it and have never played them. I bought al those mini retroclone consoles (minus the crappy playstation one anyway). I played them for a while, but I never finished any of the games and now they just collect dust on top of my desktop computer here. I even have a mountain of games on steam I don't play. Literally the only game I ever play is freaking Skyrim. If I'm not playing that, I'm playing nothing. Obviously, all I truly want to do is play Skyrim it seems. If that's all I want, and I don't use the quasi-retro tech I do have, what's the point in me buying this? The $500 price point is also a turn-off for me. I was really looking into getting into development on this thing as soon as possible, but instead I'm sitting here hoping the price will go down in the future. I realize not much can be done about the price: even the color maximite was out of production for a time due to the chip shortage, and seemingly everyone is struggling with that. Still, $500 dolors for a toy I may lose interest in after a few weeks is a pretty big ask.
Sorry for the long post, I just don't really know if I even want this thing. I mean, I rarely even post here despite having so many questions. I never even made a post on the sub-reddit, despite getting approved. Of course, that was because I had to delete my reddit account due to a FALSE ACCUSATION from a troll sub-reddit (warning, DO NOT get involved in the skyrim community, its been increasingly taken over by trolls and open white supremacists ever since the 2016 election, I haven't spoken to another skyrim player ever since I quit reddit and I have no intents on changing that). Given all this, should I even continue to look into this thing? Like I said, I rarely post here, I'm not even technically the target audience being a millenial and all, and I rarely remember the tech I do have. I did geek out over a calculator I bought some months ago to help me convert to hexadecimal. I still use that thing, don't get me wrong, but still all I really seem to want to do is play Skyrim and listen to music on youtube. What use would someone like me have for a machine like this? I'm not even a true retrogamer: I just hoard ports and occasionally old hardware and never play them. I have yet to take even that atari flashback out of its box. Granted, its atari, but still.
I'm done now, sorry for the ramble. I just can't seem to avoid making long posts. Part of it I guess is because everyone seems to assume I haven't thought about something a long-time myself. Anyway, I'm done now, bye, and thanks to anyone who actually reads this whole thing.
What do I really want?
Re: What do I really want?
Unfortunately, it was unavoidable since the video chips from back then are not available in mass quantities, and you can't find a modern video chip that runs that slowly.I never liked the decision to use an fpga in it (black box tech)
If the price is a sticking point for you you could always just wait for one of the later generations, which are supposed to be a lot cheaper.The $500 price point is also a turn-off for me.
Re: What do I really want?
FPGA... that's the thing, isn't it?
There's simply no way to build a fully retro computer anymore without an FPGA. The VIC-II chip is no longer being made. The TMS9918 graphics chip is no longer being made (and would be kind of inadequate, even if it was still in production.)
The only option for a GPU would be something like a Mali or Adreno GPU, which is way overboard for an 80s style computer.
So the only two choices are microcontroller or FPGA.
And guess what would have happened if David had settled on a microcontroller? I guarantee someone would be in here saying "I hate the idea of using a microcontroller that's more powerful than the whole computer for just graphics."
In fact, that has literally been said every time someone suggests using a microcontroller for some component (it was even said about the SMC running the keyboard/power interface.)
IMO having a couple of FPGAs for graphics and sound isn't any different than having dedicated silicon: either way, it's going to be a single chip hooked up to the VGA port and the system bus. Who cares if the chip is programmable or fixed logic? For that matter, there are some significant advantages to fixed logic, such as having the ability to fix bugs in the logic - something we could not do if we'd used a fixed-logic chip.
Personally, I think it's the combination of VERA and the hardware expandability that makes the X16 interesting. If the X16 had been just another 6502 hooked up to a microcontroller... well, that's been done before, and those designs always disappear after a while.
What hasn't been done is... well, something quite like the X16. If this computer had come out in 1990, I would have bought one and loved it. In fact, I paid $500 for a PC-XT clone in 1990, and it was a less capable machine than the Commander X16 already is.
There's simply no way to build a fully retro computer anymore without an FPGA. The VIC-II chip is no longer being made. The TMS9918 graphics chip is no longer being made (and would be kind of inadequate, even if it was still in production.)
The only option for a GPU would be something like a Mali or Adreno GPU, which is way overboard for an 80s style computer.
So the only two choices are microcontroller or FPGA.
And guess what would have happened if David had settled on a microcontroller? I guarantee someone would be in here saying "I hate the idea of using a microcontroller that's more powerful than the whole computer for just graphics."
In fact, that has literally been said every time someone suggests using a microcontroller for some component (it was even said about the SMC running the keyboard/power interface.)
IMO having a couple of FPGAs for graphics and sound isn't any different than having dedicated silicon: either way, it's going to be a single chip hooked up to the VGA port and the system bus. Who cares if the chip is programmable or fixed logic? For that matter, there are some significant advantages to fixed logic, such as having the ability to fix bugs in the logic - something we could not do if we'd used a fixed-logic chip.
Personally, I think it's the combination of VERA and the hardware expandability that makes the X16 interesting. If the X16 had been just another 6502 hooked up to a microcontroller... well, that's been done before, and those designs always disappear after a while.
What hasn't been done is... well, something quite like the X16. If this computer had come out in 1990, I would have bought one and loved it. In fact, I paid $500 for a PC-XT clone in 1990, and it was a less capable machine than the Commander X16 already is.
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ahenry3068
- Posts: 1085
- Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:57 pm
Re: What do I really want?
I paid $1300.00 for a Tandy 1000 TX in 1986. 80286 at 8 mhz. 640 kb 3.5 inch floppy. No HDD.
At the time I was an E-4 in the Navy and I took an 18 month loan to pay for it...lol...
In 1994 I still had it and paid something just short of 400.00 to upgrade it with a 40 mb HDD.
A few months later I sold the whole thing for 400.00 (which I was lucky to get). And took a 1500.00 loan
for a 486sx 25 which I had only a couple years until I got into a cycle of building myself and upgrading every
6 mos for awhile... If I had the whole thing to do over.... I would not have sold the Tandy 1000...
I might still own it with a 400 or 500 mb drive and an EMS card.... lol.
At the time I was an E-4 in the Navy and I took an 18 month loan to pay for it...lol...
In 1994 I still had it and paid something just short of 400.00 to upgrade it with a 40 mb HDD.
A few months later I sold the whole thing for 400.00 (which I was lucky to get). And took a 1500.00 loan
for a 486sx 25 which I had only a couple years until I got into a cycle of building myself and upgrading every
6 mos for awhile... If I had the whole thing to do over.... I would not have sold the Tandy 1000...
I might still own it with a 400 or 500 mb drive and an EMS card.... lol.
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void_null
Re: What do I really want?
Sigh, I know full well why he made the decisions he did. My main question wasn't about WHY the thing is designed the way it is, its about whether I would really like this thing or not. As I said, I'm too young to remember these machines (I had no idea the commodore even existed until I ran into the 8 bit guy's channel, which I think I did while looking up retrogaming stuff). Also, I doubt I could ever have the privacy I want with any modern tech. If nothing else, I would still need to use a modern monitor, keyboard, and other possible peripherals. Long ago I had people on reddit tell me that honestly I would probably only be happy with what they called a TTL computer, which the commander x16 is obviously not.
As for the argument that putting more 'advanced' hardware in this thing would be silly, wouldn't this apply to an fpga? I mean, its about as advanced as you can get. Also, if you're going to use that, then why not just put the entire computer on it? Also, you CAN replicate newer hardware with the thing. There's the weecee, which is literally a 90s office computer on a single fpga. The thing can literally run Windows xp! If you can do THAT, then what's the point in replicating an 80s computer? Really, what's the point in making a whole new one? Surely you could make an exact replicate of the commodore or even the amiga on an fpga, so why bother making a new design?
Point is, I don't see using an fpga as being any less silly than putting something modern in the thing. Honestly, it would still make sense in some ways: at least the computer would still be comprehensible. Also, they ARE planning on putting the entire computer on an fpga. If they do that, couldn't people overclock it to 200 mhz (or what they got that 6502 to on that one fpga), getting far more power but with a simple, comprehensible machine? There are people who want that; modern computing power but on a simple, transparent computer.
Either way, that doesn't solve the problem in that I see fpgas as being 'too black box'. If he wants that, that's fine, it is HIS computer. And as we all know, he really couldn't do much about it anyway. I'm just wondering if its something I would want. Come to think of it actually, I wouldn't technically have to wait for this thing to go down in price. If its open source and can be emulated on an fpga, why not get myself an fpga and set it to emulate this thing? Of course, I wouldn't know the first thing about doing that, and there is the problem of the OS which ISN'T open source. I do know someone out there has made their own knock-off, but honestly I know nothing about it and I highly doubt I could assemble such an elaborate machine myself. I've never even soldered in my life, and given my dexterity problems I seriously doubt I would be physically capable of it. Its why I want everything on this thing to be socketed; its so I could replace the chips myself when they go bad. Keep in mind, drawing a straight line with a ruler has always been a challenge for me, in fact the degree of precision David demonstrates when he's soldering things literally looks super-human to me! And I'm not even talking about that recent video where he's soldering those super tiny pins on the fpga.
Maybe computers just aren't for me anymore. Maybe I need to just accept that and stop looking into clones of ancient things that seriously make the gameboy look advanced.
As for the argument that putting more 'advanced' hardware in this thing would be silly, wouldn't this apply to an fpga? I mean, its about as advanced as you can get. Also, if you're going to use that, then why not just put the entire computer on it? Also, you CAN replicate newer hardware with the thing. There's the weecee, which is literally a 90s office computer on a single fpga. The thing can literally run Windows xp! If you can do THAT, then what's the point in replicating an 80s computer? Really, what's the point in making a whole new one? Surely you could make an exact replicate of the commodore or even the amiga on an fpga, so why bother making a new design?
Point is, I don't see using an fpga as being any less silly than putting something modern in the thing. Honestly, it would still make sense in some ways: at least the computer would still be comprehensible. Also, they ARE planning on putting the entire computer on an fpga. If they do that, couldn't people overclock it to 200 mhz (or what they got that 6502 to on that one fpga), getting far more power but with a simple, comprehensible machine? There are people who want that; modern computing power but on a simple, transparent computer.
Either way, that doesn't solve the problem in that I see fpgas as being 'too black box'. If he wants that, that's fine, it is HIS computer. And as we all know, he really couldn't do much about it anyway. I'm just wondering if its something I would want. Come to think of it actually, I wouldn't technically have to wait for this thing to go down in price. If its open source and can be emulated on an fpga, why not get myself an fpga and set it to emulate this thing? Of course, I wouldn't know the first thing about doing that, and there is the problem of the OS which ISN'T open source. I do know someone out there has made their own knock-off, but honestly I know nothing about it and I highly doubt I could assemble such an elaborate machine myself. I've never even soldered in my life, and given my dexterity problems I seriously doubt I would be physically capable of it. Its why I want everything on this thing to be socketed; its so I could replace the chips myself when they go bad. Keep in mind, drawing a straight line with a ruler has always been a challenge for me, in fact the degree of precision David demonstrates when he's soldering things literally looks super-human to me! And I'm not even talking about that recent video where he's soldering those super tiny pins on the fpga.
Maybe computers just aren't for me anymore. Maybe I need to just accept that and stop looking into clones of ancient things that seriously make the gameboy look advanced.
Re: What do I really want?
What would *not* be too black box? How would you design a video system that's understandable?
You could go with something like Ben Eater's "worst video card" and design a discrete VGA controller that uses 20 or so chips and is pretty much only useful for text. No sprites. No bitmapped graphics. But where's the fun in basically having PET level graphics?
What would you do differently?
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void_null
Re: What do I really want?
I don't know, I'm not a 'maker'. I wouldn't know where to begin in designing my own computer. I know what cpus, harddrives, ram, and other components of modern computers do, but that's it. If you were to give give me these things and a breadboard with a bunch of wires, I wouldn't know where to begin connecting them together, or even how to use such a machine without an operating system.
What do I want? I want a computer I can keep and maintain for as long as I wish. I'm sick of having to 'downgrade' every time my current computer fries. I also want to be free of the internet, and annoyingly seemingly every device from arduinos to raspberry pis come with wifi burned onto the stupid board. Whatever happened to the days where you could disconnect by just unplugging something? Now you can get a freaking computer virus even if your computer is supposed to be offline.
I admit though, its probably all a fool's dream. No tech is available forever. The older raspberry pis without wifi are no longer in production. Arduino has numberable products it no longer sells. I'm surprised things like the 6502 and z80 are still in production. Hard drives are being replaced by those stupid SSD drives. VGA is being phased out for monitors that track every thing you're doing to the tiniest detail. Its why those people told me I would probably be most happy with a TTL computer like ben eater makes (they recommended the same channel to me btw). Basically, just get a bunch of basic logic chips and try to make a computer with that. Obviously, I probably wouldn't get too far with that. Like I said, I know practically nothing about hardware. I mean, I literally wouldn't know how to hook up some ram to a freaking microcontroller, let along get the thing to output some sort of video signal.
How would I try to put a computer together? Honestly, I would probably try to mirror the architecture of a modern computer, but with more basic components. For instance, modern graphics cards have cpus just like the main board and even their own RAM. They're basically a computer in their own right. Why couldn't you pull off the same thing with some sort of micro-controller? Obviously, it wouldn't compare to a modern graphics card, but in theory such a thing could function? I'm not sure what sort of video you could expect out of the thing, though I have seen arduinos output some pretty hi-res images. Of course, these days not too many people seriously try to build computers out of arduinos. Looking them up just now, I mostly just find videos of people making weird trinkets. The newest video I can find of an actual computer was made 8 years ago!
Really, what I need to do is learn how to make things like the commander x16 myself. I wouldn't know where to even begin to be honest. Even if I could construct the machine, I wouldn't know where to begin in programming a freaking operating system, or making an ide for the thing, or other such tools. I even contemplated making a computer based on the ti-85 calculators, but again I wouldn't know where to even begin. As I said I'm thinking it just a fool's dream. Privacy with digital devices is impossible, and they're only going to continue to be downgraded just so we can have better and better graphics in our increasingly stupid games that honestly bear more resemblance to movies than true games.
Would the cx16 really give me what I want? As far as capabilities, honestly I would be happy with anything at least as powerful as the gameboy. This thing exceeds even the nes in terms of specs. Yeah, it can be plugged into an old vga monitor, but who knows how long mine is going to keep running? I have some old crts, but I don't know if most of them even work, and who knows how long they'll keep running. I have had crt tvs and monitors randomly give up the ghost on me in the past. Nothing lasts. I would be willing to make my own monitor of some sort, but clearly that isn't something you can put together by hand. I can just never be happy with any digital tech. Is the commander x16 really what I'm looking for, or does it simply not exist?
edit: Forget the arduino idea. After looking more into it, apparently its more than just a processor, which is what I thought it was. Apparently its actually one of those 'computers on a chip', like the 'processor' you see in the color maximite. At this point I'm tempted to just say 'screw technology' and go live a fully analogue life. Honestly, that's what most of the people in my community do; its actually rare for people to own a computer, or even have internet access in their area. Such are rural towns. I even live in one of those communities where you can still buy music cds. Good luck finding something to play it though; I bought a new cd player a year or two ago and its now fried. Turns out, my mother had bought the exact same one a decade ago, so it had probably been sitting on the shelf for years before I bought it. I sorta suspected that, but I didn't expect it to give up the ghost on me after just a year or two.
What do I want? I want a computer I can keep and maintain for as long as I wish. I'm sick of having to 'downgrade' every time my current computer fries. I also want to be free of the internet, and annoyingly seemingly every device from arduinos to raspberry pis come with wifi burned onto the stupid board. Whatever happened to the days where you could disconnect by just unplugging something? Now you can get a freaking computer virus even if your computer is supposed to be offline.
I admit though, its probably all a fool's dream. No tech is available forever. The older raspberry pis without wifi are no longer in production. Arduino has numberable products it no longer sells. I'm surprised things like the 6502 and z80 are still in production. Hard drives are being replaced by those stupid SSD drives. VGA is being phased out for monitors that track every thing you're doing to the tiniest detail. Its why those people told me I would probably be most happy with a TTL computer like ben eater makes (they recommended the same channel to me btw). Basically, just get a bunch of basic logic chips and try to make a computer with that. Obviously, I probably wouldn't get too far with that. Like I said, I know practically nothing about hardware. I mean, I literally wouldn't know how to hook up some ram to a freaking microcontroller, let along get the thing to output some sort of video signal.
How would I try to put a computer together? Honestly, I would probably try to mirror the architecture of a modern computer, but with more basic components. For instance, modern graphics cards have cpus just like the main board and even their own RAM. They're basically a computer in their own right. Why couldn't you pull off the same thing with some sort of micro-controller? Obviously, it wouldn't compare to a modern graphics card, but in theory such a thing could function? I'm not sure what sort of video you could expect out of the thing, though I have seen arduinos output some pretty hi-res images. Of course, these days not too many people seriously try to build computers out of arduinos. Looking them up just now, I mostly just find videos of people making weird trinkets. The newest video I can find of an actual computer was made 8 years ago!
Really, what I need to do is learn how to make things like the commander x16 myself. I wouldn't know where to even begin to be honest. Even if I could construct the machine, I wouldn't know where to begin in programming a freaking operating system, or making an ide for the thing, or other such tools. I even contemplated making a computer based on the ti-85 calculators, but again I wouldn't know where to even begin. As I said I'm thinking it just a fool's dream. Privacy with digital devices is impossible, and they're only going to continue to be downgraded just so we can have better and better graphics in our increasingly stupid games that honestly bear more resemblance to movies than true games.
Would the cx16 really give me what I want? As far as capabilities, honestly I would be happy with anything at least as powerful as the gameboy. This thing exceeds even the nes in terms of specs. Yeah, it can be plugged into an old vga monitor, but who knows how long mine is going to keep running? I have some old crts, but I don't know if most of them even work, and who knows how long they'll keep running. I have had crt tvs and monitors randomly give up the ghost on me in the past. Nothing lasts. I would be willing to make my own monitor of some sort, but clearly that isn't something you can put together by hand. I can just never be happy with any digital tech. Is the commander x16 really what I'm looking for, or does it simply not exist?
edit: Forget the arduino idea. After looking more into it, apparently its more than just a processor, which is what I thought it was. Apparently its actually one of those 'computers on a chip', like the 'processor' you see in the color maximite. At this point I'm tempted to just say 'screw technology' and go live a fully analogue life. Honestly, that's what most of the people in my community do; its actually rare for people to own a computer, or even have internet access in their area. Such are rural towns. I even live in one of those communities where you can still buy music cds. Good luck finding something to play it though; I bought a new cd player a year or two ago and its now fried. Turns out, my mother had bought the exact same one a decade ago, so it had probably been sitting on the shelf for years before I bought it. I sorta suspected that, but I didn't expect it to give up the ghost on me after just a year or two.
Re: What do I really want?
That's a microcontroller. And you're right, the Colour Maximite is also a microcontroller.edit: Forget the arduino idea. After looking more into it, apparently its more than just a processor, which is what I thought it was. Apparently its actually one of those 'computers on a chip', like the 'processor' you see in the color maximite.
I actually have both generations of Colour Maximite... and they are both sitting in a drawer behind me, because while both are capable of computer-like tasks, they both have some crippling shortcomings.
But setting that aside... do you have any vintage computers? Commodore anything? ZX Spectrum? Maybe an Apple or a Kaypro or something? You might even look at the Model T scene. (The TRS-80 Model 100 and similar computers.)
You could also try building a MiSTer. That's a lot of fun, since you can work with different systems that way.
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void_null
Re: What do I really want?
I don't anything nearly that old. Like I said, such machines was before my time. The oldest 'computer' in my possession is a compaq presario I gutted years ago to transfer its components to my next computer. That computer is long gone, and its harddrive which came with the presario fried and had to be replaced. I only own two other computers. One is this custom frankenstein computer a local shop put together for me that ran windows 7. Its internet stopped working, so I had to replace it (I was in the middle of my programming classes at the time). I'm honestly scared to even turn the thing on because I have no idea how many more times I'll be able to do so. I also have this HP computer I tried to use (my father bought it shortly before he died, he never even set it up). Suddenly, one day it stopped working and just booted to dos or something. Looking it up, apparently that specific model of HP computers was INFAMOUS for DELETING ITS OWN OPERATING SYSTEM. Apparently they were made with windows 7 installed, and if you tried to install any other it would delete it after a set amount of time. That thing's been collecting dust ever since. I was going to just salvage the parts out of it, but as of yet I've found no need to do that. My current computer is a lenovo gaming computer I got from best buy which came with windows 10. It felt like such a huge downgrade coming directly from windows 7 (yeah, I keep computers until they burn out, my previous computer before the frankenstein one was I believe a sony vaio that ran windows xp). I still wish I could return to windows xp, because worthless microsoft just keeps stripping features without adding anything new. Honestly, I don't even see this machine as a real 'computer'. To me, its just a gaming console with a web browser. I did use to turn the frankenstein machine back on and enjoy it for a few days, but I haven't done that in years and as I said I have no clue if it would even boot. I've thought about restoring it, or maybe the presario, but I don't know if I could even find components for them anymore. I've even thought about at least salvaging the motherboard in the windows 7 machine because it doesn't have built-in wifi. Either way, these are all modern machines, and of course the newer computers are the shorter time they have. Its really stupid. I'm actually scared this computer I'm typing on now (the lenovo) is going to give out any moment. Its not having any problems, but its now 4 years old and many people are having problems with computers frying at 5 years. Worthless modern tech. Better and better graphics, at the cost of everything else, including freaking longevity. Forget obsolecence; your computer won't stay running for more than a decade, and you'll be lucky to make it that far! I always found it dumb seeing fictional robots continuing to function for decades. Its clearly impossible for digital tech to last that long before straight failing. Hell, I had a cd player burn on me after just 2 years of occasional use, even though before then it was still sitting in its original packaging for possibly a decade!
So no, I own nothing made prior to the year 2000 (I got one of the later models of presario that came with windows xp it seems). Like I said, I had no idea commodore computers even existed until a few years ago. In fact, I knew nothing of 80s computers. I knew about stuff like arcade machines and of course the atari 2600, but I never bothered to contemplate what computing was like prior to the 90s, or even if it existed at all. Our first family computer was that 'woodgrain' computer lgr made. It came with windows 95 I think. That's lost now, and who knows if it even still worked. The thing was sitting idle for decades in basically a shed. I do still have some software for it, though not much. I didn't really start collecting computer games until I got that presario. Strangely, some of those games still work fine on THIS MACHINE. Don't ask me how, but they do. The last version of windows they official support was windows xp, and they work on a windows 10 machine. Of course, I don't play them much because I worry for the longevity of these ancient discs. When it comes to retrogaming, I've always preferred ports so I don't have to use aging and increasingly precious hardware. Point is, I have no way to experience these older systems for myself, and even if I did I would be scared to turn them on. I know that ti-85 calculator I had still worked last time I used it just a few years ago, though sadly I've since misplaced it and had to rely on other calculators. Its why I thought about making a computer based on it; it clearly lasts, which is one of the main things I'm looking for. I've heard people have done that, though honestly I've never been able to find proof of that.
So no, I own nothing made prior to the year 2000 (I got one of the later models of presario that came with windows xp it seems). Like I said, I had no idea commodore computers even existed until a few years ago. In fact, I knew nothing of 80s computers. I knew about stuff like arcade machines and of course the atari 2600, but I never bothered to contemplate what computing was like prior to the 90s, or even if it existed at all. Our first family computer was that 'woodgrain' computer lgr made. It came with windows 95 I think. That's lost now, and who knows if it even still worked. The thing was sitting idle for decades in basically a shed. I do still have some software for it, though not much. I didn't really start collecting computer games until I got that presario. Strangely, some of those games still work fine on THIS MACHINE. Don't ask me how, but they do. The last version of windows they official support was windows xp, and they work on a windows 10 machine. Of course, I don't play them much because I worry for the longevity of these ancient discs. When it comes to retrogaming, I've always preferred ports so I don't have to use aging and increasingly precious hardware. Point is, I have no way to experience these older systems for myself, and even if I did I would be scared to turn them on. I know that ti-85 calculator I had still worked last time I used it just a few years ago, though sadly I've since misplaced it and had to rely on other calculators. Its why I thought about making a computer based on it; it clearly lasts, which is one of the main things I'm looking for. I've heard people have done that, though honestly I've never been able to find proof of that.
Re: What do I really want?
"Honestly", wow. Just...wow.