VCF X16 feedback
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:11 am
We survived VCF!! 
Great to meet a few of the people who have the DevBoards! That VCF was maybe our last "public outreach" for this year, and before the 1000 unit run, so it was good to be out there and showing that is a very supported platform.
And "the public" had a lot of questions, as expected. Mainly, of course, "how/when do I get one"? We couldn't get specific on that (other than estimated about 2 months from when the 1000-unit run starts, which means Before-End-of-Year is still possible, but no definite timeline yet). We did also convey we've actively been using the system and think that it is ready- you can power it up and start doing fun stuff. We also did say to be on the lookout for pre-orders, so hopefully we didn't misspeak there, but we thought that was still the plan.
Some also just wanted the mainboard PCB and claim they could handle putting their own components on. While that sounds good, some advise against doing that was that then you then end up dealing with a lot of time consuming tech support when people end up not being able to get things built right. And, of course, they'll need to produce a VERA.
To me, I think more people want a "complete" product: keyboard, case, mainboard - plug in your monitor and go! Yea, engineers can stick a motherboard in any box. I can get retro kits all day long. But most folks, that case gives the system a meaningful identity - as some folks have said, sticking it into a 90's ATX case kind of ruins the experience for them. So how will that work, a single place where you go Buy a "complete configuration" (maybe TexElec can handle that, just stating that "with case" orders will need longer time -- of the few cases I've assembled, it's still 18 minutes to assemble which includes putting in and securing the X16 board). A real pro might get it to 15min, but I don't see full case assembly happening in under 10min. That adds up when starting to do 100's of units.
But also, a $350 mainboard and $150 case puts it back to a $500 system. $50 maybe for the keyboard, a possible small printed manual, maybe also microPSU or some cables/adapters? And some "profit" is very reasonable - to cover maybe warranty, and cover staying open so you can continue to provide support a year, five years, etc. from now. So I don't think the price is unreasonable (Foenix Retro is addressing that to, that considering inflation even a $600 price is less than when early micros came out).
Some still think it's a C64 or an FPGA that can morph into emulating other types of game systems. So tried to stress it is not that. But if it's not that, then what is it? It is a complete personal computer with its own "look and feel" on BASIC and KERNEL extension. It will have some familiarity with C64 folks due to the PETSCII character set, but there are lots of extensions to make it a much more capable system. (but to people who never used a C64, this doesn't mean a whole lot)
One person was surprised to see it had 80 col mode (since at the time, my running demo was doing some 20 and 40 col mode stuff). I probably should have prepared a better chart on the text and video mode options.
One thing to consider: while I still like and use YouTube, we should acknowledge that there is some growing "resistance" to using YT (maybe not in using it ever per se, but not using YT as a primary go-to source for info). Hopefully that's just temporary sentiment. But still, YT shouldn't be the only vector of getting info about the system out. I'm certainly bad about that, as I don't use TikTok or FB. I could use reddit more.
Or as the Foenix Retro system folks have done, they have a newsletter (maybe bi-monthly?) which I imagine is very time consuming to prepare. But it also starts a track record and shows a commitment to the product. I think they maintain an e-mail list also for that, which I'm not 100% sure how to setup (I mean in coordination with the commanderx16.com website). Anyhow, instead of one huge manual right now, maybe a set of smaller periodic newsletters? Make it a PDF? Although searchable PDFs I think adds a cost? It could describe things like prog8 updates? Or BASIC samples? Just a few articles per month.
If the 1000 run is still 2 months out - then cranking out some "confirmed R44 compatible" set of "launch titles" would be good. Speaking of ROMs, can the VERA FX be "official" now?
On the Discord, we've focused a lot on ROM and software development (or at least I have). Is anyone with a physical DevBoard doing active expansion card development or need help testing such things?
Despite all the questions: it's good just seeing the interest is there. Many understand that it is still developed by volunteer/weekend hours mostly, so we have to reasonably pace our expectations for both SW and peripheral HW development.
Great to meet a few of the people who have the DevBoards! That VCF was maybe our last "public outreach" for this year, and before the 1000 unit run, so it was good to be out there and showing that is a very supported platform.And "the public" had a lot of questions, as expected. Mainly, of course, "how/when do I get one"? We couldn't get specific on that (other than estimated about 2 months from when the 1000-unit run starts, which means Before-End-of-Year is still possible, but no definite timeline yet). We did also convey we've actively been using the system and think that it is ready- you can power it up and start doing fun stuff. We also did say to be on the lookout for pre-orders, so hopefully we didn't misspeak there, but we thought that was still the plan.
Some also just wanted the mainboard PCB and claim they could handle putting their own components on. While that sounds good, some advise against doing that was that then you then end up dealing with a lot of time consuming tech support when people end up not being able to get things built right. And, of course, they'll need to produce a VERA.
To me, I think more people want a "complete" product: keyboard, case, mainboard - plug in your monitor and go! Yea, engineers can stick a motherboard in any box. I can get retro kits all day long. But most folks, that case gives the system a meaningful identity - as some folks have said, sticking it into a 90's ATX case kind of ruins the experience for them. So how will that work, a single place where you go Buy a "complete configuration" (maybe TexElec can handle that, just stating that "with case" orders will need longer time -- of the few cases I've assembled, it's still 18 minutes to assemble which includes putting in and securing the X16 board). A real pro might get it to 15min, but I don't see full case assembly happening in under 10min. That adds up when starting to do 100's of units.
But also, a $350 mainboard and $150 case puts it back to a $500 system. $50 maybe for the keyboard, a possible small printed manual, maybe also microPSU or some cables/adapters? And some "profit" is very reasonable - to cover maybe warranty, and cover staying open so you can continue to provide support a year, five years, etc. from now. So I don't think the price is unreasonable (Foenix Retro is addressing that to, that considering inflation even a $600 price is less than when early micros came out).
Some still think it's a C64 or an FPGA that can morph into emulating other types of game systems. So tried to stress it is not that. But if it's not that, then what is it? It is a complete personal computer with its own "look and feel" on BASIC and KERNEL extension. It will have some familiarity with C64 folks due to the PETSCII character set, but there are lots of extensions to make it a much more capable system. (but to people who never used a C64, this doesn't mean a whole lot)
One person was surprised to see it had 80 col mode (since at the time, my running demo was doing some 20 and 40 col mode stuff). I probably should have prepared a better chart on the text and video mode options.
One thing to consider: while I still like and use YouTube, we should acknowledge that there is some growing "resistance" to using YT (maybe not in using it ever per se, but not using YT as a primary go-to source for info). Hopefully that's just temporary sentiment. But still, YT shouldn't be the only vector of getting info about the system out. I'm certainly bad about that, as I don't use TikTok or FB. I could use reddit more.
Or as the Foenix Retro system folks have done, they have a newsletter (maybe bi-monthly?) which I imagine is very time consuming to prepare. But it also starts a track record and shows a commitment to the product. I think they maintain an e-mail list also for that, which I'm not 100% sure how to setup (I mean in coordination with the commanderx16.com website). Anyhow, instead of one huge manual right now, maybe a set of smaller periodic newsletters? Make it a PDF? Although searchable PDFs I think adds a cost? It could describe things like prog8 updates? Or BASIC samples? Just a few articles per month.
If the 1000 run is still 2 months out - then cranking out some "confirmed R44 compatible" set of "launch titles" would be good. Speaking of ROMs, can the VERA FX be "official" now?
On the Discord, we've focused a lot on ROM and software development (or at least I have). Is anyone with a physical DevBoard doing active expansion card development or need help testing such things?
Despite all the questions: it's good just seeing the interest is there. Many understand that it is still developed by volunteer/weekend hours mostly, so we have to reasonably pace our expectations for both SW and peripheral HW development.